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  1. #81

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Hmm I don't know, kinda like it. 10mans do have more friendly atmosphere afterall plus its much easier to detect and replace retards. In 25man guild you need like 17 dpsers (thats the role most bads play), kinda hard to replace most them, not enough people around really...

  2. #82

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Seems a strange one no matter which guild you are your best 10 people are always going to be better than the other 15 you take to 25 mans, this is going to either leave alot of people in guilds out in the cold, or have lots of 10 man guilds per realm.

  3. #83

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This will fragment a lot of hardcore guilds.

    In every top server guild there is a really strong core of good players. At this point, since hardcore guilds have a high turnover rate, why bother teaching new people when you can just take your core 10 and stay close together for all of cata, plowing through progression.

    Watch and see, a month after cata hits, hardcore guilds will be splintering like crazy. Everyone will be fumbling around to position themselves into a new 10-man guild.

  4. #84

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This really is dangerous if they get it wrong.

    I honestly see the death of 25 man raiding if they mess this up :S

    I hope they get it right and that the 25 man route is sufficiantly more efficient to keep people wanting to run 25 man.
    We dont stop playing because we grow old,
    We grow old because we stop playing

  5. #85

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Been asking for EXACTLY this since Wrath beta.


    Seriously, parity between the formats should have been implemented from the beginning. We'll see if 25-man raids survive (I personally think they will be fine. Some people just like larger raid groups).

  6. #86

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Late april fool?Very late.

  7. #87

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeina
    So.. first they make it easier to get gear.. and people complain.

    Now, it seems like it'll take longer to get gear.. and people complain.
    If they were to announce WoW is going free, but they'll still make patches and expansions (at half the price) for it, people would complain.

    Hell, if they were to say they'll give every player 1000€ for being so faithful, someone would still complain.

  8. #88
    High Overlord Astronomy's Avatar
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    Aug 2009

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    10 man raiders were one step behind because of the quality of loot.

    25 man raiders, however, were getting better pieces + moar emblems.

    Now we'll probably see specialized 10 man raiding guilds, which sounds fun. You beat me Blizz, thats what I call a cool change.

    Note: All those 25 man raiders who QQ about getting same loot with 10 man raiders, were you doing 25 man for better epics, really?

  9. #89

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Dungeon Difficulty and Rewards

    * 10 and 25-player (Normal difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop the exact same items as each other.
    * 10 and 25-player (Heroic difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop more powerful versions of the normal-difficulty items.
    WoW finally very good news

    No more need to run 10 player ICC to get THIS Trinket, Offhand whatever. This change will shut down ilvl inflation to a reasonable level again which is a good thing. Also heroic will be even more heroic because you can´t equip so super fast with running additional 10man normal / hero 23 normal ID´s.

    Overall this will make guild raids even more attractive and won´t punish strict 10 man raiding guilds in terms of progression..and thats good.

    Sure people will cry over this change..but in the end they will like it.
    Don't even try. Sound reasoning and common sense are lost to a great many on these forums...

  10. #90
    Bloodsail Admiral Geekbustarz's Avatar
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    Feb 2010

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    If they pull this off good, i'm going to be so friggin' happy. Finally 10 mans won't be so ignored as they are now... ( Shadowmourne only doable in 25 man e.t.c.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzzentch View Post
    honestly what happened in BC? it's like the 60's of WoW everything is in awful colours, shit doesn't make sense and i feel like i'm trippin bawls everytime i level an alt past 58...
    Shattarath is kinda pretty but outside is a technicolour nightmare that looks like someone tied horses to the contrast slider and fired a rifle

  11. #91
    Bloodsail Admiral Seregon's Avatar
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    Kristiansand, Norway

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I like the changes. Probably some of the best news I've seen come out of Blizzard for a while.

    And as people stated about the coming comments; this is going to be good.


  12. #92

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    The first of the refinements being made is that we're combining all raid sizes and difficulties into a single lockout. Unlike today, 10- and 25-player modes of a single raid will share the same lockout. You can defeat each raid boss once per week per character. In other words, if you wanted to do both a 10- and 25-person raid in a single week, you’d need to do so on two different characters. Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel. Obviously the raid lockout change doesn't apply in pure Icecrown terms though, as this change goes hand-in-hand with a few other changes to raid progression in Cataclysm.

    We're designing and balancing raids so that the difficulty between 10- and 25-player versions of each difficulty will be as close as possible to each other as we can achieve. That closeness in difficulty also means that we'll have bosses dropping the same items in 10- and 25-player raids of each difficulty. They'll have the same name and same stats; they are in fact the exact same items. Choosing Heroic mode will drop a scaled-up version of those items. Our hope is that players will be able to associate bosses with their loot tables and even associate specific artwork with specific item names to a far greater extent than today.
    I think this is just bullshit... This is making 25man raids pointless now.. Having the 10man and 25man raids on the same lockout ID. As well as having them drop the same loot. This is just bullshit way to make the fucking game even easier for the baddies blizzard way to go.

  13. #93

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Don't like it, more loot in 25 is pointless as there are more people that want those items anyway, so better of doing 10's or something, meh.

  14. #94

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I see it now ... the next expansion after cataclysm : We will delete the 25 man raids because no one is doing them but we will make 5 man RAIDS , all cheer now! and buy buy the expansion, allso we will sell for $ tier items !! all cheer now !

  15. #95

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazertrooper
    Gated content: pathetic.
    Same lockout: don't care really.
    Claiming that 10 man can be same difficulty as 25 man: pathetic. thaddius can be 4 manned on 10 man in blues but with the same gear would be a wipe to enrage on 25 man with less than 20.
    Read the post. They are changing difficulty levels to match. Thaddius might be 4 mannable now. But maybe not so in Cata's era. Stop thinking Wrath = Cata. It fucking isn't.

    On topic. Seems like a good idea to me. When reading I was getting a little disappointed. Same gear for 10 and 25s? The fuck?! But it will work. And work well. 25 mans certainly will not be dead. If anything, it's 10 mans that are in danger of dying. I'll be taking the 25 man route, if it is the same difficulty but more efficient. More gear, badges and money.

    Ok. You won't be able to do an instance like 4 times in one week. Thank fuck for that.

    This is going to be a good change
    Quote Originally Posted by Spritely View Post
    That said, I'm going to bed. Having a conversation in this context with someone with an avatar alluding to heroine use is just odd.

  16. #96

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Ah, the amount of people QQing because they looking at the tree and forgetting about the forest is outstanding.

    This change can't be evaluated solo. There are two other changes that WILL affect the raids strongly. Guild leveling and Path of Titans.

    Combine this change plus Guild leveling (as you have to be in the guild or you WILL lose all the benefits of it) plus Path of Titans (obviously, it will be affected by raiding) then you can QQ about it.

  17. #97
    Field Marshal Redjack's Avatar
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    May 2007

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Flawed
    Personally, I like this idea a lot.
    People complain that 10-man raids aren’t real raiding, it’s just faceroll and all the real men should play in 25-mans.

    Well, one huge reason people think 10-mans are faceroll is because people collect much better gear from the 25-mans and then venture into 10-mans.
    this is exactly why i like this change, no more 25HC guilds facerolling our 10man content with much better gear so that we will finally have a chance to compete for the first 10man server kills

    9/11 HC 10 man only raider here...

  18. #98

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Ding...another point for us casuals. Very nice change indeed!

    Come my celestial steed...adventure awaits!!


  19. #99

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    A very welcome change from my part Will also help with the crazy item scaling we have seen in Wotlk.

  20. #100

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I guess it will be kind of cool to go back to the way raiding was in TBC.
    As in 1 raid of 25 players raiding 1 lockout of a 25 player instance.

    However this statement made absolutly no sense:
    We do like how gating bosses over time allows the community to focus on individual encounters instead of just racing to the end boss, so we’re likely to keep that design moving forward
    I mean like literally no sense what so ever...
    How do you focus more on a boss just because there isn't any bosses to kill after him?

    Also it is going to be interesting to see how Blizz try to make 10mans the same difficulty as 25mans. I don't see it ever happening.

    As long as they make the heroic content on par with LK HC without the buff I will be happy

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