Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Tjamen]

Nobody is underestimating their wisdom. They just aren't that wise.

they are just the company that made the most successfull computer game of all times. they are not wise. not at all.

[Ollakka]

This is complete fucking bullcrap. I loved the fact that you could raid the same instance twice a week. Also the fact that you can get the same loot from 10man is fucked up. I'll QQ a lot and quit playing WOW because of this.. TBH quitting wow is only a good thing, but anyways, ty blizzard for making the quitting easy for me =)

People like you leaving WoW will make the game better. Thanks for that.

[Mcpownage]

I have a feeling 25 mans will start slowly becoming a thing of the past. Unless people really love 25s, it's much easier to get 10 people together and get the same exact gear.

I agree i doubt any one will do 25 mans as hard as it is to get 25 people in a raid doing there job and your not going to need to ten mans will become the primary raid setting /nerdrage >

[mrwingtipshoes]

typical america response. If something doesn't go you your way give up, don't ever try to produce thought of change or add ideas to a topic

Attacking country of origin, ya know in the World first threads this is treated as trolling and LOTS of people have been banned for it...

Second off, it was in response to a "the sky is falling! QQ" Post, since you can't be bothered to know what was going on let me explain:

"This will destroy wow!!! The sky is falling! QQ!"

"Don't like it? Quit."

Get it? I'm not quitting because of it, again reading more than 5 words is probably a good thing.

[Critzngritz]

This is not set in stone yet, or at least they had hope it isn't. UNLESS We have so much raid content it would be almost imposable to do each raid on our toons during the week.
So my opinion, 10's should not = 25's at all, in any way, shape, or form. Same lockout = bad idea unless they will be offering more content, at a faster rate.

[rkma]

Think of 10man and 25man as arena ladders.... like 3v3 and 5v5.

Play the one you can for same rewards.

Great, make raiding like arena. That's a BRILLIANT idea.

[Rootofalleli]

I was waiting for an excuse to stop raiding, i think i just found it :'(

Translation: People who do 10m will get MY gear. NOOOOOOOOOO!

Seriously folks, what's the big harm here? No more grinding emblems by doing the same raid in 10 and 25. No more running an extra 10m that you mostly don't care about so you can roll on 1 trinket, maybe. Oh noes. In Cata, doing something twice a week will offer variety, since you can go on an alt instead.

I think a lot of people might be freaking out too because they think the difficulty gap will still be the same. But with more sharing of unique buffs (e.g. Hero/BL for mages) and consolidating buffs (pally blessings, for example), encounter designers will be able to make things harder for 10m groups. Implementing the loot changes right now would be pretty bad, but we should look at it all in the actual context, most of which we don't even know.

[Daedalon]

I think the main reasons behind these changes are...

Videogames should be your second life... not your only one.

Doing 10 and 25 man - heroic and none heroic + alts.... Burned out or not... Its just not healthy for anyone.
Its sick and Blizzard should not promote such gaming habits. And they are changing it. Thankfully.

[Thnagera]

At first reading it, my very first thought was "Well, there goes 25 mans."

But, thinking about it, it wont.

If they make 10 and 25 man just as hard, and 25 giving more loot to make it the quicker gearing option, it will be better for the game as a whole.

10 mans will be able to be tuned in 25 man gear.

So, think of it like this...

Instead of:
Run 10 man, learn fights.
Run 25 man with knowing the fights, get gear.
Run 10 man heroic with 25 man gear, making it easy.
Run 25 man heroic knowing fights learned from 10 man.


Now:
Run 10/25(Whichever you do.) man.




Also, this will help burnout from players running 10, 10HM, 25, 25HM each week(In ToC terms, 10 and 25 speaking of ICC)


So, as a 25 man(And 40 before that) raider for 4 years, I approve.

This man speaks the truth.

I try to run my guild's ten mans, but they always seem to do two things:

1. Cause drama with the people who didn't get to go
2. Burn out the people who actually do go

This change will make raiding more fun in general.

As a raider since early TBC, I also approve.

[Gummywyrms]

While this is off topic, at least everyone has probably read a book of comments

[toychristopher]

Of all the days for my account payment to be pending!!! UGHHH!

[Todes]

cancelled subscription

[Kandaras]

R.I.P 25 man raiding

[Ollakka]

Great, make raiding like arena. That's a BRILLIANT idea.

Thats what they are doing with "LOOT EPICS PIXELS AND STUFF".


I was thinking of leaving WoW before catalysm, but this change made my toes tickle and ready to burn another 100euro for this game. Asuming this will happen.

There is always diablo3.... someday.

[Ksmota]

Translation: People who do 10m will get MY gear. NOOOOOOOOOO!

Seriously folks, what's the big harm here? No more grinding emblems by doing the same raid in 10 and 25. No more running an extra 10m that you mostly don't care about so you can roll on 1 trinket, maybe. Oh noes. In Cata, doing something twice a week will offer variety, since you can go on an alt instead.

I think a lot of people might be freaking out too because they think the difficulty gap will still be the same. But with more sharing of unique buffs (e.g. Hero/BL for mages) and consolidating buffs (pally blessings, for example), encounter designers will be able to make things harder for 10m groups. Implementing the loot changes right now would be pretty bad, but we should look at it all in the actual context, most of which we don't even know.

10 man content has always been easier. Why do you need top tier loot for content that doesn't require it? It makes much more sense to have 10/25 share the same lockout and drop the same items but at a lower ilvl.

I think the main reasons behind these changes are...

Videogames should be your second life... not your only one.

Doing 10 and 25 man - heroic and none heroic + alts.... Burned out or not... Its just not healthy for anyone.
Its sick and Blizzard should not promote such gaming habits. And they are changing it. Thankfully.

Since when did Blizzard become our doctor? If someone wants to raid 8 hours a day then that's their prerogative. Long raids have been around in MMOs for over a decade now and nothing catastrophic has happened. If someone pays $15 a month to play a game, they should be able to play it as much as they want and not how long some guy sitting in a cubicle at Blizzard thinks they should play it. That's a terrible excuse and justification for Blizzard taking the lazy way out.

[Dragonfiregum1]

Why in the hell if i do a 25man would i want the same loot as some 10man raider.
It doesn't matter how hard you try, its always going to be easier with 10people.
Easier to find 10 good players, easier to coordinate.
There going to have to overtune the 10 player stuff. And even then, its still just easier.
I said this in early BC, 10man's will kill this game to nothing. They might as well just make 5man raids. And get rid of 10 and 25 shit.

I want 25 and 40 player size raids.

10 man's are easier to group comp change, Changing a 25 requires a more people todo so.

[Deleted]

Am i the only one enjoying the ammount of pages? ;D

[lilbuddhaman]

I think the main reasons behind these changes are...

Videogames should be your second life... not your only one.

Its sick and Blizzard should not promote such gaming habits. And they are changing it. Thankfully.

lol ok.

OR

Activision CEO: Sure, your customers pay $15 a month..but if you give them too much stuff to do, then they won't have any time to play any of our other games. What can we do to get them to play LESS so they will have time to buy our other games ?

[Rootofalleli]

This man speaks the truth.

I try to run my guild's ten mans, but they always seem to do two things:

1. Cause drama with the people who didn't get to go
2. Burn out the people who actually do go

This change will make raiding more fun in general.

As a raider since early TBC, I also approve.

This, a million times. After we do 25m, I try to get two 10m groups going. But, no, there are only 16 people who can stay on so late. So I get whiny tells from 6 people who have to sit. And the people who do get chosen stay up ridiculously late. Win-win right there : :-\ :'(

[Thundercougr]

Personally, I think this is an AMAZING change. I've long wondered, as well as questioned, why Blizzard did not have this or something similar. I mainly was hoping for it to be applied to heroic settings. Currently, Heroic 10-man raids drop the same ilevel as normal 25. I've wondered why they didn't just allow heroic 10s to have the same loot as normal 25. That way, 10-man only guilds would be able to acquire Legendaries, yet there will still be a reason to do 25s since Heroic 25 would drop gear you cannot get in 10-man raids.

The upcoming change is different of course, but I still like it. Seems like it would be hard to balance, but perhaps not. The only thing they would have to change is boss/add HP I suppose, since bosses should hit the same (Same gear in 10/25 means you have the same tank, essentialy). This change just allows MORE guilds to be 10man as feeling like they have to be 25 to be on top of the game. With the same raid lockout, I don't see it killing 25-man guilds as people are QQing. As stated in Blizzard's release of info, it will be more efficient to run 25 if you are able to. You will receive more loot, emblems, and gold. Therefore if you are capable of running 25, then you should. You're more likely to see loot drop you need, although I'm not as much of a math wizard as others, and cannot determine whether or not you will have a higher chance of getting said loot (There are also many variables, such as raid composition and your own roles, that play into this).


Long story short: Great change, props to Blizzard. As always, there are doomsayers saying it will kill the game and guilds. It won't kill the game or your precious 25-man guild. There are still incentives for you to stay 25-man if you are able to. This change just makes the raids even more accessible to 10-man groups.