Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Raith]

Only way this will work is if the drops per person are the same. So say a boss drops 2 pieces in 10 man, thats 1/5. The same boss will have to drop 5 pieces in 25 to keep the 1/5. So, doing a 10 man raid with 6 bosses would be 12 drops in 10 man and 30 in 25.

If you do two 10 man groups you're losing out on a piece of loot per boss. So over the course of 4 weeks with two raids that equal eleven bosses you'd get 88 single 10 man, 220 in 25 man and if you did two 10 mans it would only come to 176 which is a loss of 44 pieces of loots.

To me that seems like far from the death of 25 mans.

[Vidur]

Ah, the amount of people QQing because they looking at the tree and forgetting about the forest is outstanding.

This change can't be evaluated solo. There are two other changes that WILL affect the raids strongly. Guild leveling and Path of Titans.

Well put.

I've always enjoyed 10M raiding far more than 25M. It may not feel as 'epic' or w/e but, its just feels like you're actually doing something. Anyways, I like this change. I've never known why the 'real raiders' had to to 25M, simply because it dropped better gear. Also, how is not wanting to find 15 additional people make someone/a guild 'casual'? As someone else put it...

Whatever, let the mediocre elitists rage and (not)quit the game. I'll just start ignoring their posts.

[Pandpops]

Has to be one of the most stupid things they have ever done same raid lockout for 10and 25 man so now what we have 1 raid a week when they start rolling out bigger dungeons! Anyone else other than me think blizzard are just making it easier for there shitty systems to handle alot less loot to deal with and raid lockouts sigh.

[Vestia]

Jesus! Slow down all your nerdtears, no one reads fast enough to actually enjoy them =(

On topic: Love the change, being able to make raids with your circle of friends (while staying competitive) is just cool!

[Whalephant]

Cool. Now I'll have even less to do each week per character. Thanks for that.

[Laava]

I think it's a great idea to force people to choise between 10 and 25man raid and imo it will solve some 10man group issues in larger guilds.

But on the other hand I dont like that both of them will drop the same loot, it will make it pointless to run 25mans

[Seregon]

And another one fails at simple match.

Wut?

[squixarn]

Love the idiots who are preaching the end of WoW and 25 man raiding already.

25 Man raiding will still:

Bring more loot overall
More Gold
More badges
More chance of wipes/fail
More Accomplishment
More Challenge

The only difference is now, 10-man raiding is actually worth-while instead of just a filler for gear until the top-end level guilds can achieve better gear.

Right now, no raider in their right mind would take a peice of gear from ICC10(i251) if they had a (i264) option available from 25 man instead which would obviously be better in comparison.

Silly people are silly.

Good change is good. It changes nothing apart from loot. And I'm pretty sure that Top-end Hardcore guilds like Paragon, For The Horde, Ensidia etc would be raiding for the accomplishment and World First still like they have always done.

about that filler gear ilvl 251 vs ilvl 264 is just crap, before Blizz made the interface change so u could see the Ilvl and that shit addon gearscore came to place ppl could eazy change gear to lower Ilvl becouse it had better stats for your specc! all since those changes all 80% of the wow community has gone GS mad wich are just silly cuz the addon SUCK!

[Vraizan]

So... with 10 and 25 man being on the same lockout... less raiding... goody >.> i just love having unlimited time to sit in dal....

[Deleted]

More badges/gold/loot.

If the boss drops say 3 times the badges and loot, you've actually got better chances of winning something.

QFT, also this is probably be EXACTLY what Blizzard is planning to do, atleast i hope so. (so 10man are 2 items and 2 badges per boss and 25mans 6 items and 6 badges per boss) and that makes 25man raiding ALOT more than viable. I can't see any "hardcore" guild (such as paragon for example) doing 10mans if you get badges 3x faster in 25man, and gear a little bit faster too, with higher chances of it not going to DE/OS, but straight upgrades.

[Seregon]

about that filler gear ilvl 251 vs ilvl 264 is just crap, before Blizz made the interface change so u could see the Ilvl and that shit addon gearscore came to place ppl could eazy change gear to lower Ilvl becouse it had better stats for your specc! all since those changes all 80% of the wow community has gone GS mad wich are just silly cuz the addon SUCK!

So it's all GearScore's fault!? I knew it! To be honest, itemlevel has always been coded into the items and anyone could view it if they wanted to.

[Babyrobot]

All the people saying this will kill 25's. No it won't. There alot of big guilds out there who will continue to do the 25's with no change. Also of people prefer 25's (Including me) so it really won't make a difference. If anything it add's more fairness to the game if your a 10 man group who can't get more players or you raid late night etc.

[Raith]

It's also worth noting that this halves the amount of different loot we can expect to see from a single raid now. Easier for the gear designers.

[Oreana]

CBA to read the posts before but-

10 mans and 25 mans sharing the same lockout is the best thing that ever happened to WoW. This is what I was hoping for a long time but didn't believe it would actually be implemented.

The thing that half the guild saw the places and encounters in 10 man before the others in 25 man was so freaking lame. The current system also encourages and nearly forces you to raid till you burn out.

THANK YOU BLIZZARD!

[Babyrobot]

It's not ALL about gear please remember that!

[Deleted]

Wait wait wait, I distinctively remember some QQ posts saying that killing a boss on 25 man doesn't feel as rewarding anymore because you've probably already done it on 10 man...

Also, more emblems = faster gearup = bigger e-peen. So 25 man raids are still gonna be the way to go if you want to feel special.

[moguri]

Man, this is going to fragment guilds like crazy. There tend to be better and worse players in a 25 man group. The better ones are going to realize that they can get better loot (from doing later bosses in a raid), by just doing a 10 man with the best folks. Sure, they may not get quite as much loot per person, but they can kill more bosses to make up for that, and those later bosses will probably have better gear anyway (and they will have a better chance at hardmodes too).

Ugh.

This will happen for sure, wait and see.

[Deleted]

God....


STOP LOOKING at the item level. Item level is NOT your epeen meter in Cataclysm, Guild Leveling and Path of Titans are....

[Deleted]

Note: All those 25 man raiders who QQ about getting same loot with 10 man raiders, were you doing 25 man for better epics, really?

Nicely said !!

[Nienor]

Simple facts :

1) 25 man raids >>>> 10 man raids in difficulty no matter what. It's simple maths. 10 people are much easier to coordinate and work together than 25.

2) Encounter complexity in 10 man will always be lower than that of a 25 man unless they dumb down the 25man content.

3) Gold in wow doesn't matter anymore, so even if a boss drops 100g more for each one in raid (which wont happen imo) it would still be useless.

4) Unless they make 25 man bosses drop 3x more items than 10 man, 25mans will die. Simple math again. It would be much better for a guild to run 2x10 man raids than 1x25 since people will get more loots MUCH easier.

In my opinion, what they should do is:

1) Have 10 man version of a raid available that will drop random - non-tier, low quality epics for those who don't care about loots etc and they just want to raid casually and experience the fights - lore etc.

2) Have only one version of the 25man raid available. No heroic difficulty and such failed crap. Just one version that will be challenging enough for those who have the patience and will to fight at a higher level. Ofc the rewards should be appropriate to that level of difficulty.

This way everyone would be happy. Both casuals, who dont care for items or challenge or anything like that and they just want to log in smash some stuff and log out, and the more "hardcore" who enjoy the most challenging content and they just feel like suckers when they see that the game rewards the same those who try more and those who don't even try at all.