Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[dvdconway]

What an absolute shit idea. The extra effort people put into organizing 25 mans is now going to be pointless. I realize it stated you get more emblems and gold but I don't do raids for fucking gold. And more emblems, I had nothing to spend my EoF on after 2-3 weeks of ICC so thats pretty pointless. This is simply another way to let casuals and shit players who are too retarded to get in a good 25 man guild get some decent gear. I think Blizzard will find ALOT of people will discontinue playing because of this. Suddenly made Cataclysm alot less appealing.

[I stand in fire]

I do like:
having 10 and 25 man share the same lockout. It'll make it easier on progression when my guild can focus on one version than stretch our selves on 10 and 25 versions of the same raid.

What I don't like:
The difficulty and the quality of loot will be the same for both 10 and 25 and the only difference will be the amount that drops. Isn't that the point of 25mans, to provide a better challenge for higher skilled players and reward success with better quality of gear? I just don't get the reasoning behind this, why have a 25 man then? more drops?

Also, smaller raids? What the fuck is wrong with raids with 10-12 bosses? Uldaur and ICC is awesome, why change it?

[Bleak Roe]

Nice this is one big step towards then end of wow. Biggest dumbing down i've ever seen. Did the casuals cry so much about having worse gear than hardcore players that you basically have to give them even more free loot? This is so stupid i can't believe it. They still look the same, kill the same bosses and what not.

10 mans will never, ever, never, ever, never, ever be as hard as 25 man bosses and therefor 25 mans will die. The biggest PR for wow, the 25 man world first race, no one will never ever care about it again. TBC killed 40 man raids, Wotlk killed challenging raids and Cata will kill 25 man raids.

The epic feeling to raiding started to die slowly with WotLK, the fact that you had to kill the same boss 2 times each reset and sometimes 4 times made us puke. Heroic modes also kills the joy of raiding, really, it's not even close to the same feeling to have killed heroic mode bosses in wotlk as the feeling to down bosses like C'Thun, Murur and Kil Jaeden the first time. The epic feeling about raiding is to approach a new boss, that you know is really hard but not impossible. This doesn't exist in wotlk, not even LK25 HM.

I could never see this coming. I was hoping for 10 mans to be normal modes and 25 man to be heroics. I could live with that. Like this, the noobs, bads, casuals, slackers can raid 10 man to see content and explore lore and at the same time the hardcore raiders can skip bullshit 10 mans and go work on really hard bosses from the start in 25 man.

two words, EPIC FAIL!

[Eversor]

This thread so far

- 25man raiders display their disgust at these changes. Now there's no 10man raids on off-days unless you all have alts in the same content tier.
- 10man raiders display their IQ saying 25man raiders (who do the harder, fast paced content) are just lootwhores and they clearly deserve top ilvl loot for no actual reason.
- Clearly, 10man raiders enjoy 10mans because they have 9 friends and loot doesn't play a part at all (just want to experience content brah!!) but they need the same loot as 25man raiders even though it doesn't matter to them.
- Strict 10man guilds love this change because now, even though 25man guilds having higher ilvl loot impacts in no way, shape or form on their own raiding schedule, they now get the same loot as 25mans. Makes sense right?

All I see is a bunch of lootwhore 10man raiders (probably clickers, keyboard turners and just bad) getting a boner over getting even better purples and showing no respect, yet again, to the feelings of 25man raiders.

Hmm, a post full of sweeping generalizations and ad hominem. All aboard the fallacy express, full steam ahead, no stopping from here!

[Herecius]

Still digesting how I feel about this. I only think I could like it if they really did somehow balance 10s to be just as difficult... but I can't imagine how in the world Blizzard honestly hopes to do that. It seems impossible to make 10man as difficult as 25man, because most of what makes a 25man raid more difficult isn't that bosses are hitting harder, or things do more damage, it's merely the number of people there. Still not sure about this. Hrm.

[Deleted]

Stupid changes.
I won't be playing cataclysm, retarded blizzard.

[Elementium]

Then people realize that raids won't be as easy as WotLk.


I like the idea, I think it may be subject to changes but overall I think it's good. I doubt guilds will break up over it, it just means people who are overgeared in 25 mans can't farm 10 mans for badges.

Plus if the gear is the same but they want to maintain the same difficulty on bosses it means they only have to make the gear and then tweak the bosses which is much easier than what they have to do now...

Part of the reason raiding is so easy now is people are already getting 25 man quality gear ANYWAY.. so what's the big deal? now they're going to make raids difficult because they expect everyone to have that one set of gear.

[BuryGnome]

10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout.

Will ruin the game, kinda..

[Downwithopp]

right when you can actually prove to me (I'll roll on your server if you like) you did any of these and not just watch Nihilum videos thinking you were there, I'll believe you.

you are not a good troll. try harder. and you sound very, very mad. in fact I'll ask you the million dollar question: umad?

You are a retard. Acheivments werent even logged back then.

No trolling here, just someone who doesn't think filth like you deserves the same loot as better players.

[Deleted]

Also, smaller raids? What the fuck is wrong with raids with 10-12 bosses? Uldaur and ICC is awesome, why change it?

Diversity.

[Shammywan]

[Monday 19:17] [Guild] lets do 10 man tonight cause we dont have enough signups.. what an amazing change... ow wait WE ARE SAVED IN 25

[emni]

Some people like raiding more than a couple nights a week.

What's the new model going to be? Complete 'X' raids in two nights in 10m, and wait a week (lockout) to play WoW again?
Sounds boring to me.

If you have so much time to play, then surely you have enough time to level up several alts to maximum level. And voila! You can do all the raids 10 times a week.

[thatguyzp]

It almost seems as Blizzard could be using this change to eventually segway to only 10 man raids. Kind of like the Vanilla 40m > BC 25m, except it wont be as blunt this time around, since people will kind of have seen it coming.

I say they should just drop 25man entirely for Cataclysm. This way they don't have to itemize and balance 10/25, and maybe we'll get content more frequently.

[Viandrathal]

100% Fail idea Blizzard... for once just pull your heads out of each others asses and stop killing this game plz

[boomboomba]

10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout.

Will ruin the game, kinda..

Do you like doing the same things twice (or four times like in ToC) each week?

[Zace]

It astounds me the preconceived notions that people have in regards to raiding. As someone who has done hardcore 25-man raiding, and someone who has done only 10-man raiding, I welcome this change whole heartedly. 25-man raiders do not deserve better gear because they managed to find another fifteen people to attend their raid. The difficulty level between 10-man content and 25-man is essentially just people. In 25-mans, you might find an additional mechanic during a boss fight, but the biggest difference is typically the amount of health the boss has. They will usually do more damage, as well, to make up for the fact that they assume that 25-man raiders will have better gear then 10-man raiders.

I want you to think about that for a moment. The only reason 25-man content is harder is because it's artificially harder due to the additional number of moronic people you might be bringing with you. It's harder because there are more people to screw you over. How is this fun? How is this exciting? 10-man raiding right now is given no respect due to the fact that 25-man raiders can come in and just roll it as soon as it's out due to their gear level. 10-man instances were never made to be difficult for people who out-gear them. 10-man content shouldn't be viewed as a training ground for 25-man content, or to get a few easy pieces to make up for what you don't have to make 25-man content easier. This lessens greatly the accomplishment of a 10-man who is a close-knit group of friends who work well together and can accomplish things without having to spend hours upon hours in a 25-man instance.

So, at this point, "hardcore" raiders are complaining because they're no longer given the prestige of managing to find fifteen additional players who will, at some point, cause wipes for them. They're complaining because now 10-man raiding means something. It doesn't take away from you. If anything, it promotes your style of play. An environment where every single player in the raid has far more impact on what's actually happening, rather than having the ability for several people to go afk, screw up or DC and you still accomplish your goal. If anything, this promotes competent, progressive raiding. We have more time for learning and dominating content rather than sitting around scrounging for players. I understand that the progression-minded, world first raids already have the players they need, but Blizzard doesn't build content expressly for those people.

Shame on you.

QFT.

[TheTachy0n]

Oh yeah, now I don't have to do 10man Great change. I raid 25man 4 times a week so doing 10 man would steal a lot of my pvp time.

Why organize 25 man when 10 man will give same reward?

I am defnitely not going to buy cataclysm if this goes live.

[Gagdush]

I do not like this. The gear should in my opinion be in 3 tiers: 10 normal, 10heroic+25normal, and 25 heroic. I think this sucks, but this pleases the masses.

[El-ahrairah]

Honestly, I think this is a bad idea. Though I don't mind having the same loot drop in 10 or 25, but it does sort of make it impossible to play both raid compositions. Many guilds -like- to have two 10-Man farm groups and a 25-Man progression group.

Simple fact is I just don't see the purpose of this change. I'm all for the casual gamer, but I feel that should be a choice, not something forced upon the player base. Combining the lockouts like this sort of does just that.

It almost feels like you can only do one or the other style of play, and while not as bad, feels akin to being not allowed to play in arenas or BGs if you're a raider. Why do we have to sacrifice one for the other, instead of having both? Now, that might sound a bit greedy, but we already have the option of doing both; why take that away from us?

[Reixy]

Because you are blind. Let me help you see -


- If you want World First Kills on 10 man raids, you will need to gearup the fastest way possible, You can only do this raiding 25 mans aswell.

- If you want World First Kills on 25 man raids, you will need to gearup the fastest way possible, You can only do this raiding 10 mans aswell.

- If you want to play casually, your gear will fall far behind if you only raid 10 mans, but you still get to see content.


Think it through logically, and stop your QQ. You cry because you didn't think. Same as everyone else here who possess no logical think process.

- More gear posts are illogical when there are MORE PEOPLE getting the gear. What is it going to be? double? thats less, Tripple? that about evens out.
-"our gear will fall far behind if you only raid 10 mans, but you still get to see content" Your gear falls behind so it gets harder, but making the 10 man harder wont do the same thing...?
- And you can only raid ONE so your first two points confuse me, you raid 10 OR 25 man not aswell.