Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Ruminan]

Doing the same dungeon on 10 and 25 every week on multiple alts is boring and time consuming. That's why I abandoned 2 of my alts... Can't raid every day of the week, I still have work to be done. If they manage to balance well the difficulties, this will be a great improvement. You can do only 10 man version and feel you achieved something.

Also, only 2 tier levels (reg and heroic) per content patch, this means stats will scale slowly and we won't over gear heroic dungeons so quickly (aka turning them into boring daily runs).

I'm looking forward this change! Looks awesome.

[Cilraaz]

10-man guilds will raid 10-man raids
25-man guilds will raid 25-man raids

Where's the problem?

The problem comes in when people read half of a blue post, throw their hands up in the air, and become convinced that the world is going to end.

[Madarame]

so 10s will drop 1 item per boss, in 25s it will be 3
this makes 25s more efficient than 2x10s.

i like the changes. i don't like 10s anyway. i'm not doing them now - so doesn't matter at all.

[Baaadum]

Awesome!! I've always loved 10 man raiding guilds, but I never did them because 25's had better gear, and I hate 25 man. Can't wait to start playing again in cata

[Deleted]

I welcome this changes. Good job blizz

[domn]

im going off regular 10 and 25 man versions. im not referencing hard/heroic modes.

ive never done either so i have no place to say the difficulty of heroic versions.

Regardless, difficulty is being brought more in line, so his argument is pretty much invalid.

[Palisis]

The nerve.

So basically the advantage of 25 man raiding is more gold? fuck 25 man raiding

reading. is. fundamental.

[dvdconway]

Awesome!! I've always loved 10 man raiding guilds, but I never did them because 25's had better gear, and I hate 25 man. Can't wait to start playing again in cata

So, your just a loot whore?

[Quesly]

WTB people with basic math skills.

wtb people who understand how raid compostions work 25 people and 17 dps 2 tanks 6 heals != 2 10 man raids

[blupp]

10-man guilds will raid 10-man raids
25-man guilds will raid 25-man raids

Where's the problem?

a lot of the new Wotlk players will leave the 25man guilds because the gear is equal.

and blizzard wont make the raids harder lol. who is so *** to believe that? they have pushed the average skill lvl down and there is no learning in raiding anymore. you can make mistakes over and over again and still kill the boss. even if blizzard wanted to make normal raids harder they couldnt.

will also kill a lot of random raids because people will think twice with those changes in mind.

that actually might be good because guilds were never so worthless as in wotlk. its more like a singleplayer game nowadays.

[Doomphoenix]

Pretty sure this is Bizzard's dumbest idea yet.

[Ricen]

This is completely retarded....
Casuals have no business raiding imo. The difficulty is getting taken out of this game so damn quick. 25 man is wear gear and progression is at and blizz you are taking that away thanks for killing a good game

[jertagadlafrata]

Great change as i could never raid end game 25s with my integrated graphics and lack of more then 10 people with a brain. Now i can raid correctly tuned content in 10 mans.

[Svenny]

To the itemlevel shitfest. Blizzard is just stupid for doing what they were doing.

What they did:
Naxx 10 - 200
Naxx 25 - 213
Ulduar 10 - 219
Maly/Sarth3d - 226
Ulduar/Ulduar 10hc - 226 - Weapons 232 rofl
ToC 10 - 232
Ulduar HC - 239
ToC 25/ToC 10 hero - 245
Icc 10 - 251
ToC 25 Hero - 258
Icc 25 - 264
Icc 25 hero - 277

What they should have done:
Naxx 10 - 200
Naxx 25 - 213
Ulduar 10 - 219
Maly/Sarth3d - 226
Ulduar 25/Ulduar 10hc - 226
ToC 10 - 232
Ulduar HC - 239
ToC 25/ToC 10 hero - 239
Icc 10 - 245
ToC 25 Hero - 252
Icc 25/Icc 10 Hero - 252
Icc 25 hero - 258

see what i did there shitzzard?

SEE WHAT I DID THERE ROFL

No, what they should have done is:

Now:
Naxx 10 - 200
Naxx 25 - 213
Ulduar 10 - 219
Maly/Sarth3d - 226
Ulduar/Ulduar 10hc - 226 - Weapons 232 rofl
ToC 10 - 232
Ulduar HC - 239
ToC 25/ToC 10 hero - 245
Icc 10 - 251
ToC 25 Hero - 258
Icc 25 - 264
Icc 25 hero - 277

How it should be:
Naxx 10 - 200
Naxx 25 - 200
Ulduar 10 - 204
Maly/Sarth3d - 206
Ulduar 25/Ulduar 10hc - 207
ToC 10 - 209
Ulduar HC - 211
ToC 25/ToC 10 hero - 213
Icc 10 - 214
ToC 25 Hero - 216
Icc 25/Icc 10 Hero - 218
Icc 25 hero - 220

Something more in those lines, gear should scale slow with very little difference. This way skill will be more important then the gear you are wearing and even blue geared people would stand a chance against high tier people. Skill > Gear is the way to go.

[Pieuvre]

Vanilla: Introduced raiding with such parties as up to 40 people.
TBC: Changed the raiding ideology to have different raids set up for some 10mans and more 25man content.
Wrath: Changed again to where each raid can either be set to 10 or 25 man.

You know what the same thing is between these is? When they were first talked about, people didn't like the idea (I personally hated having to hear 39 people bitch, complain, and yell), but it was actually liked later on by everyone. So what, they're changing some the ideas behind raiding. They've been doing that since first expansion, quit bitching.

[Wythel]

If there is no need to 25-man the content at all, it will kill the need of guilds the second it's effective.
Even the 40 ==> 25 and then the 10-25 mirroring changes, that already damaged the "MMO" aspect of this game so much, will feel cosmetic after that.
The epic time of WoW is gone.

RIP PVE

[Palisis]

We cleared icc normal first week with only toc 10 man gear + toc 25 normal mode (hi @ same itemlevel) with a pug.

You didnt clear it first week because content was gated. QQ moar.

[blupp]

I honestly dont get the system with the same lockouts:

if my 25man guild is stuck on some boss we could continue with a 10man group? and what about the other 15man? nice idea lol.

[Korv]

The amount of people that didn't read it properly is ASTOUNDING!

[Aphrel]

lets go and play tibia! where hardcores are awarded properly.

and where you never run out of things to do