Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Ollakka]

If 10mans and 25mans share lockout they should reset every 4 days to keep players busy with the content.

[Epicadin]

Refresh the first page and you will see that they haven't decided on the number of drops yet.

They also said that they don't want to make anything different so that people don't feel obligated to do 25s over 10s. That means they are gonna make it proportional to the amount of people in the raid...

[Rayleigh]

Honestly, if they do this what is the point of 25 mans any more? Same loot, but just less quantity of it, same lock out period, and they'll aparently be about the same difficulty. I really have mixed feelings about this, but I have a feeling its going to be bad, especially for some classes, because they aren't as ideal in a 10 man set-up.
I thought some of the cata changes would be ify, but I knew they would work out fine.....But this....This is going to hurt PVE in WOW a lot I think. I seriously hope they decide not to do this.

[phai]

Couldnt resist ... flamefeast here :/

[Smoopie]

more people will get loot, possibly more guild currency to spend? guild achievements, maybe special mounts that only drop in 25 mans?

you have NO idea what they have planned... no one does.

wait i'm confused, are you in support of this? cuz your ideas sound pretty bad

[Luyana]

People are complaining about how 25 main raiding will become obsolete because you'll get same loot as 10 man etc but I thought people were doing 25 mans for fun instead of loot. "it's waaay more epic with 25 man than with 10 etc etc"

[Switchshot]

Hahah good riddance, finally the 25 man raider mindset of assholes and pricks looking down on 10 raiders will be gone!

[Deleted]

"We’re also not sure about realm first achievements or titles. We don’t want to encourage, say, 25-player focused guilds to run a 10-player raid instead because they think that will get them the ream first title faster. One potential solution is you can earn a realm first title in 10 or 25, but not both. These types of achievements also serve as great content for guild achievements."

Because it makes sense that the most qualified guild for the realm first shouldn't be able to get both, right?

guilds that do run for realm first have enought people to have a 10 man and 25man runing at same time, they also have alts that are bether equiped them your on main.

Remember ICC harmodes? they run the raid with they alts to know the tatics so they save trys for the mains.

[Deviltry]

Over one thousand QQ replies, eight more to go.

[SoulPoetry]

Over one thousand QQ replies, eight more to go.

i have faith that, for once, some real news will get more comments than a vanity item.

[Deleted]

Nobody is forcing to change to 10 mans.
You can still raid 25 mans.
'Nuff said

[lloydxd]

Some of you guys are QQ'ing for the wrong reason. Just because 10m + 25m share the same lockout doesn't mean we will only raid 1-2 days a week. Theres going to be more raids now, which will still take time to down all of them. With more raids, that equals to more bosses, and more strats, more variety and fun.

[Shadence]

Personally, I think this kills 10 mans.

Same loot dropping in both raids is a good and should have happened earlier, but the increase quantity of items, gold, and badges/emblems replacement means that makes 10 mans obselete, I think its going to be 10mans dropping 2 items, 2 badges and 25 drops dropping 5 items, 5 badges. Id do 25s anyday over 10s for that.

[Vehemence]

This reminds me of when 40 man's got turned down to 25.


Pfoooehhhhhhhhh, the amount of comments in that topic.

[sneaky7]

Nobody is forcing to change to 10 mans.
You can still raid 25 mans.
'Nuff said

There is a little flaw in this argument.
Yes, I would still try to stick to 25s if I could. But really A LOT of other people will rather do 10s, so I will just fail to find companions for my 25.

[Stonepony]

I think Blizz is doing this for a few different reasons. Again, these are just my opinions.

- The ever growing numbers of players that love raiding with their alts.

- Artificially slows down the progression.

- Blizz is trying all they can to level the playing field. They know many players don't care for 25man raids, but want equal loot for equal effort.

- This makes designing content much easier for them.

I honestly think Blizz is leaning towards making 10 man raiding their priority in the future.

[Smoopie]

Personally, I think this kills 10 mans.

Same loot dropping in both raids is a good and should have happened earlier, but the increase quantity of items, gold, and badges/emblems replacement means that makes 10 mans obselete, I think its going to be 10mans dropping 2 items, 2 badges and 25 drops dropping 5 items, 5 badges. Id do 25s anyday over 10s for that.

10/10 would feed again

[TabascoEU]

OOM healers or unskilled healers will be a more likely cause of a wipe in Cata than they are nowdays. And since the burst on tanks is removed, the "fast reaction to pop a Last Stand within 1 second after suddenly getting under 10%" will no longer work. The damage that tanks take will be scaled with the amount of healing they are supposed to recieve in 10 or 25. Thus, they will still need to pop their cooldowns for better damage reduction. If once in a period of time the boss begins to deal 3 times more damage than he normally does, that will be the time to pop a cooldown, no matter if it is 10 or 25.
But honestly, I still admit that in 25 man tanking will probably be more interesting and difficult. I am just saying that your are making this more dramatic than it actually is.

When you play for interesting and fun tanking....how much more dramatic can it be.

"I still admit that in 25 man tanking will probably be more interesting and difficult"

ofc it will be. Why would anyone want to continue with a game that is "less interesting", "less difficult". Generally difficulty should progress, not regress.

Basically they claim they can balance difficulty. Without radiance, e.g. doubling healing or regen or halving healths in 10mans, they simply can't achieve that.

e.g. when a DPS'er stands in a fire in a 25 man, he may have 1-2 seconds to get out of it or he is dead. In 10 man that is never the case. The fire spots just do less damage, otherwise your 2-3 healers go OOM. So if you have 4 secs to get out of the fire instead of 2 secs, where are the reaction tests....there just arn't any. 10 mans because of the fact that you just can't throw as much burst damage around because of limited healers, are and always will be easy mode relative to their 25 man versions.

Most people here are concerned about loot, I couldn't give a rats ass about loot. But the quality of the game comes from the challenge it provides and that you have to overcome. This change will always leave either the 10man or the 25man as the "easier" path to loot. and everyone will quickly go for which ever one is deemed easiest, 99% probably 10 man.

Like Arenas, suddenly class composition becomes 100% key, not even class composition.....class + spec. Min/Max.

You will NEVER get "bring the player, not the class" with 10 man heroics being the choice raid for hard mode loot.

Basically this is a dreadful change for the game, and its future amongst those most dedicated to it.

[albuli77]

This is awesome, I have less of a chance to raid with stupid people

Although, I wouldn't discount Blizzard on this one. If they wanted to kill 25 mans they just would have. I'm going to be the 25 mans are tweaked enough to still be "more" attractive.

I'm just tired of always having at least 1 person in our raids just not get the game at all. We have pallies who insist on staying Flash of Light spec ><, when we have no Holy Light speced pally.

[Jaqerainey]

IT'S ALL KREWEL'S FAULT!! :-X