Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[evilgnomey]

More people will be in the raid, so the loot, like now, will be proportional to the amount of people in the raid (2 pieces in 10 = 5 pieces in 25) and I like the way you added "possibly". We only know what they have said, and people are reacting to such...

Blizzard better fix this fast before 25s become obsolete!!

10 man:
-10 people, maybe 6 bosses in one raid.
-each boss drops 2 items out of a possible 8+?.
-12 bits of loot with a 25% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

25 man:
-25 people, maybe 6 bosses.
-each boss drops 5 items out of a possible 8+?
-30 bits of loot with a 62.5% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

in 25's you have a better chance of getting the loot you want faster, so people who do 25's have a chance of gearing faster then people who do 10's.

[Zweistein]

tho i have to give props to blizz for repeadingly selling you less and less content as something NEW, and exiting, at least thats how alot of people see it, as something to look forward to, when at the end of the day it is less work for blizz, less items as in less desing work, less coding, less everything compared to , say, creating entire independent 25 and 10 man content again. haha its brilliant.

[Stonepony]

10/10 would feed again

That's your personal preference. Remember there are many players that don't care for 25man raids. This is why Blizz is making this change.

[steinn]

So people are crying because there won't be a (GS-based) reason to run 25s, and therefore fewer people will want to run 25s? So 25s will then be harder to put together from a smaller pool of 25s-interested players?

Too bad there won't be a smaller size of raid to go clear.


Oh such a delicious update today.

[sneaky7]

Why would anyone want to continue with a game that is "less interesting", "less difficult". Generally difficulty should progress, not regress.

I wish everybody thought like that. And a lot of people claim to. Yet, after several wipes, some suddenly get a call from a deadly-ill relative or get a terrible connection. And the next day on wich the boss is planned, nobody is online.

[Abnell]

Considering most 25man guilds can switch to running 3 10mans without too much effort, the amount of loot required to give a 25man incentive will either be so much that the situation will be the same as it is now or nobody in their right minds will raid 25mans and settle for less loot, especially considering the difficulty will be the same (how they do that without making 25 piss I do not know).

Have fun!

[Soccerzubs]

While people say it is killing of 25 mans nobody is stopping you from making a group and if other more experienced players want to do 25 mans with you then what is the problem? All the casuals who don't spend too much time playing will go to 10 mans and leave the 25 mans for the more experienced players. Seems like a good way to filter players.

[Doddilus]

I think people are thinking 10mans will be "easier" than the 25 mans much as they are now. However, they are only easier because you are doing it in your 25 man gear while 10 mans are tuned for people who only have access to 10man gear.

With putting 10 and 25 on the same tier, 10 mans will have to be tuned for the same level of gear just fewer people. ie NOT easier or harder
Throw what you know raiding to be right now out the window and start fresh
Cataclysm =/= Wrath of the Lich King

[Epicadin]

10 man:
-10 people, maybe 6 bosses in one raid.
-each boss drops 2 items out of a possible 8+?.
-12 bits of loot with a 25% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

25 man:
-25 people, maybe 6 bosses.
-each boss drops 5 items out of a possible 8+?
-30 bits of loot with a 62.5% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

in 25's you have a better chance of getting the loot you want faster, so people who do 25's have a chance of gearing faster then people who do 10's.

Yea because we dont have 5 months between content patches to get all the gear we need....

[Luls]

As to the people wondering why people bitch and complain then still play for years and years.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461...-addicted.html

I found that article extremely biased. I mean the whole purpose of MMO's is to make a game you don't finish in 5-60 hours. From a developer's standpoint it's impossible to make totally unique content you only play a couple times max so spreading the rewards evenly for a (on average) steady progression which doesn't bore you before the new content arrives (excluding a certain amount of people obviously) is the only way to keep people renewing their subscriptions. And players accept this not because they are tricked into it but because that's what they wanna spend their time doing.

WoW is not addictive unless you let it be.

[sneaky7]

Seems like a good way to filter players.

Filter them for what? For recieving equal loot?

[tjkiler]

10 man:
-10 people, maybe 6 bosses in one raid.
-each boss drops 2 items out of a possible 8+?.
-12 bits of loot with a 25% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

25 man:
-25 people, maybe 6 bosses.
-each boss drops 5 items out of a possible 8+?
-30 bits of loot with a 62.5% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

in 25's you have a better chance of getting the loot you want faster, so people who do 25's have a chance of gearing faster then people who do 10's.

cause in 10 and 25 man there is no diffrence in people wanting that item to

[Immadk]

Overall, our goal is that you make the decision between whether to raid with 10 players or 25 players based on what you find fun and not because of the reward structure.

Can't you people just not get this ? How pathetic addicted people are really.

[fiffer86]

Assuming what they are shooting for exactly what they are saying, I don't see why there is any reason for any "hardcore" player to hate this. If anything this means casual raiders should be hating it.

Why? The key phrase is them saying they want the difficulty of both 10 and 25 man to be the same. This means no more bullshit like what the majority of casual raiding guilds are doing now. Which is not being able to do the 25 man version without grinding out the easier 10 man. And when they get better gear from the 10 man, attempt 25 again with success.

Instead, if all works out as planned, if you cant clear the instance in 25 man, don't even attempt it in 10 man. You still have to work on the last tier before entering the new instance. Where in comparison to WOTLK, you can be significantly under-geared in comparison to the avg ilvl of the current tier, and still clear the 10 man version.

I also like the idea of the looting system. If both 10 and 25 are truly just as difficult, having the same ilvl of gear makes since. But it also is logical that the 25 man version will give you greater rewards. But instead of it being higher ilvl gear, more will drop. I'm assuming if 10 man version gives you 2x pieces of gear per player, 25 man will give you 3-5x pieces of gear per player (obviously the numbers are an estimate, but its just the idea that more gear will drop in the 25 man instance per-player). Not to mention there could be more rep-gains in the 25 man version, what would lead to faster progression of getting rep related gear.

As far as im concerned this seem like it could very well cater to the "hardcore" payers more then the casual. Unless they are aiming for the 10 man version of difficulty in current. Which I highly doubt.

[rangerfox]

in 25's you have a better chance of getting the loot you want faster, so people who do 25's have a chance of gearing faster then people who do 10's.

Let me put it like this: a 25 man raid might have say, 5 or 6 caster dps that want the same piece of gear. The piece you want drops... you're up against small odds that you'll get it over 4 or 5 other people. And that's if it even drops in the first place.

Now in a balanced 10 man raid you'll have 1 or 2 casters. If the piece you want drops you're either guaranteed to get it or you get a 50/50 chance at it.

So no, in 25s you do not have a better chance of getting something faster.

[Prag]

I like it (I'm a 25-man Raider, not super hard-core though), and here's why:

I'm a Tank. There are a ton of people in my relatively small Guild that like to Tank, but Raids only need, at most, 3 Tanks per 25-man. This opens the door for more people to perform the role of their choice. I hate DPS'ing, but I'm forced to sustain a competitive DPS spec because, again, there's often more Tanks than are needed.

Guilds will adapt. The community decides what is accepted as "hardcore", not Blizzard. We see 25-man Hard Mode achievements as top of the line. This is in part because 10-mans aren't tuned for players who run 25 Hard Modes.

With the difficult between 10 and 25 being closer, perhaps we'll see some of the extremely skilled small groups on the front page, instead of just watching the same Guilds that get World 1st's in 25's get World Firsts in 10's...

I agree, in the current state of the game, it doesn't shine well for 25's. Again, though, that's just how we currently see things. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that Blizzard isn't 100% happy with how things are currently. When I read other News Posts, it doesn't seem like the community is happy about it either.

I like it. If you're in a position to do 25-hard modes right now, what are you afraid of?

Top complaints of previous News Posts have been:

1. I hate having to raid the same encounter X times.
A: Shared lockout.

2. I hate that some of my BiS items are from 10-man.
A: Same quality between 10/25.

3. It's always the same World First 25 guilds that get World First 10.
A: Shared lockout.

I see this as progress. I think it will really force Guilds to flush out their extra baggage. That's a good thing though, in my opinion.

Stigas, Frostmane-US (if anyone wishes to check credentials)

[cicatric]

Thanks blizzard for killing the only reason why I raid. 25m content.

You will not be able to sustain 25 man guilds in your proposed environment. The drama that would develop over create 10M raids within a "large" guild would quickly break them up.

I guess I needed a good reason to quit. And you have given me one. Youve totally deflated my enthusiasm toward Cataclysm.

[galvin]

25mans eventually will be phased out. Over a year ago I knew eventually 10mans would start getting more focus. And in their next mmo i'll be surprised if they even have 25mans anymore.

I don't like the change just less options means more bordem in the long run. But whatever.

[Arandmoor]

What the hell am I going to do for the rest of the week after 25 mans now.

DERP!

Roll an alt and experience it as a different role if you absolutely must run the same content multiple times per week genious.

Fuck...is simple logic honestly this difficult to grasp?

[Dreirden]

Maybe if all the people that hate this change could throw themselves off a bridge to show their disapproval of this change, Blizzard will see that most of us welcome the change.

It will fragment some guilds like when they dropped the 40 man raids.

I like the change Cata is getting better by the day.