Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[ozzyloki]

never doing a 25 man again.

[Smolderthorn]

Can't you people just not get this ? How pathetic addicted people are really.

I play this game because it gives rewards.
Or well it used to do so.

In Real Life it's not like you get a good bonus for each thing you do right.... thats why the game is good, you gain rewards for putting in effort.

[Dreirden]

Good thing they mention the number of items, I am simply saying that they need to make it more than 5 pieces of loot to even make it worth while, as for gold who cares? it is already easy enough to obtain and has no worth.

They stated that it will be MORE PER PLAYER. So that will mean more than 5 assuming 2 drops per boss on 10 man.

[fiffer86]

This is one of the worst ideas ever. While 25 man will drop more loot than 10 man, the ratio of loot per the amount of people will probably be the same, unless 25 man drops a significant amount of loot, 10 man drops 2 pieces of loot per boss which is 1/5 therefore just to MATCH it each 25 man boss will have to drop 5 pieces and to make 25 man even worth it, each boss will have to drop more than 5. > >

This is where I would disagree. If they are planing on keeping 25 mans alive (which I assume they are) when they say 25 man groups will drop "more", Im assuming its per player in the raid. More or less saying if 10 mans drop 2 pieces of gear per player in 10 man, the 25 man will drop 3-4 pieces of gear per player.

Not to mention they could also increase the reputation gains, and the chance of epic pattern drops in 25 man, which would also increase the rate of gearing up.

Really this whole announcement to me is concerning the current live version of WoW. How the majority of raiding guilds CAN NOT clear 25 man content without grinding out the much easier 10 man versions.

More or less the idea that if you can not clear 25 man ICC, you will not be able to clear 10 man ICC. And you will still have to get better gear from TOGC.

[Smoopie]

...people think there is a skilled tank shortage now, just wait

[soradakey]

Why?

People running 25's should be running 25's because they have *wait for it* Twenty-Five competent players.

Not because 25's have a higher ratio of loot per person...

Why exactly is this? What is wrong with wanting more chances to get what you want.

[sneaky7]

that is not more epic, 10man hardmodes are more hard and you cant screw up in 10 man if someone screws ut its wipe and 25 man not realy.

Tell this to the Lich King 25 heroic.

[Aberration]

Raiding in 10 mans = less likely the item will drop, but more likely you will win it.
Raiding in 25 mans = more likely the item will drop, but less likely you will win it.

[Prag]

This change will cause this:

1. 25 Raidguilds will vanish with few exceptions
2. PUGs will be standard
3. Raiders will run 10-mans with their best players (only some we-want-to-be-world-1st will do 25 to gear up a little faster) doing heroic modes much faster
4. WoW will lose many old-school and hardcore-players
5. WoW will get many more 100% casual 1-2 hours/day players

This could end the raiding style we know love/hate for 5 years - it will open raids to people who never raided (and those are still the majority) and bore the 6+hours/day players causing many of them to leave and play other MMOs. But for Blizzard it means more players, more money. They could care less about hardcore guild QQ if they get a legion of paying casuals in return.

PS: sorry for my bad english, not my native language.

You do realize that the 6+ hour/day "hardcore" players are the ones who have been playing the longest, paying the most and seeing the most content... right?

A lot of the PuGs running around are 25-man players pugging the 10-man stuff. With a shared lockout, I'd expect fewer PuGs.

[Jathro]

Uhuh, it's fun having to have 25 people on at the same time to raid. Splitting up into 10s wouldn't be more convenient without any downside at all...

And sarcasm is like my 2nd language, so.. I'm right there with ya.

I'll remember this post for the next expansion when they faze out 10mans and 5mans become the new way of experiencing content. Then you can say "how fun it is trying to get 10 people on at the same time to raid. Splitting up into 5s wouldn't be more convenient without any downside at all..."

Yeah, you see what I did there.

[OtisJay]

Over one thousand QQ replies, eight more to go.

Think this will go up to OVER 9000!?!?!

sorry had too.

But really everyone. chill...

[TabascoEU]

Another food for thought...

A server per faction only actually has a limited number of people interested, dedicated AND capable of being a "good" raid/guild leader...

If everything starts switching to 10 man guilds... you will have a lot of 'sucky' guilds run by selfish users.

As for guilds staying large and running multiple 10 man teams...you always get the "A TEAM and B TEAM" whine. Why can't I be in X team, and that crap breaks up guilds or puts a hell of a negative feeling into raiding and being guild mates.

another point.

Lets say they get difficulty balanced through radiance and similar...

So both 10 man and 25 man are equally challenging on both normal and hard modes (ha ha, never will happen)...

What will the scrubs do after 5 mans?

right now you have a logical progression

5->10->25

in difficulty and in gear. That progression is ruined.

Best move for Blizz now, is to scrap copy + pasting instances/loot for different raid sizes.

[Dreirden]

You do realize that the 6+ hour/day "hardcore" players are the ones who have been playing the longest, paying the most and seeing the most content... right?

A lot of the PuGs running around are 25-man players pugging the 10-man stuff. With a shared lockout, I'd expect fewer PuGs.

I have been playing for 5+ years and paying the same amount as those hardcore players. In fact so has a majority of our casual 25 man guild.

We pay the same and use less resources, so why should only the hardcore players get what they want?

[Styria]

People running 25's should be running 25's because they have *wait for it* Twenty-Five competent players.

Not because 25's have a higher ratio of loot per person...

then why not recruit 5 more competent players and run 3 10 mans?

25 will have to drop the majority of a loot table to be seen as worthwhile over running just 10 man.

[rkma]

Only very silly people think that less content = more choice.

As usual, casuals are envious of stable/competent guilds, and celebrate any change that will make it harder for them to operate.

[Odyssasthai]

For those who say this will "kill" 25-man: Why save something that you have to force people to do? If no one wants to do it, it deserves to die.

[justandulas]

GENTLEMEN, GENTLEMEN! THIS COULD VERY WELL LEAD TO THE END OF THE WORLD.................. of warcraft

[Ksmota]

Cataclysm looked atrocious before and this just adds to it. What a terribly stupid system. I'm guessing their idea of balancing both to be the same difficulty will be making 25s faceroll easy a la most of the ICC 25 HMs.

[Deleted]

Top complaints of previous News Posts have been:

1. I hate having to raid the same encounter X times.
A: Shared lockout.

2. I hate that some of my BiS items are from 10-man.
A: Same quality between 10/25.

3. It's always the same World First 25 guilds that get World First 10.
A: Shared lockout.

4. i will have to leave my guild cause they are casual and me and 14 other guys are hardcore and we do 10man HC for the fun and with this we shared lock out we cant raid with our guild friends on normal modes and go HC modes for the epic felling

[Prag]

Why exactly is this? What is wrong with wanting more chances to get what you want.

Because, as they stated, filling a dozen slots with anyone willing to jump in isn't fun.

Having a group of 25 people who are competent and interested in progression is fun, though.

I'm sure it will cause a lot of Guild drama. No different than the 40->10->25 transitions between Vanilla and TBC.

I see this as an opportunity for the community to see more than just 25 Hard Mode as the top line of progression. Am I the only one seeing the positive in this? It's giving us choice where we previously had little, while also not demanding we see the same fucking bosses 2-4 times a week.