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  1. #1701

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBauerLOL
    Seriously, the irony and arrogance of 10man raiders is blinding.
    Almost as much as 25man Raiders who are slowly being disillusioned to the fact they got significantly better gear for a not as significantly more difficult instance.



  2. #1702

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    •10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout.
    Thats a good thing because now people feel forced to run both 25 mans and 10 mans.

    •10-Man and 25-Man raids difficulty will be as close as possible to each other.
    This has some flaws, class balancing has never been perfect.
    If Blizzard is going trough with this and 10 mans will be harder the lowest dps class will just be left outside.
    Also if 10 mans get harder it will only lower the amount of people that will get to see content.

    •10-Man and 25-Man raids will drop the exact same loot, but 25-man will drop a higher quantity of items.
    This is just silly if you ask me,
    10 man will always be abit easier because you only have 10 people instead of 25.
    Doing it with 25 man causes alot more problems forming raids and progressing on bosses and i think it should be more rewarding because of those things.

    Overall i really dont see whats wrong with the current system and i think that if these changes go trough it will work the other way around and only less people will see the content.

  3. #1703

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    All I have to ask is why not save the trouble and programming it will take to implement this and just simply make all raids 10 mans?

    You still get the same results....can only do one a week...the gear and challenege is suppose to be the same as 25 man. so what's the difference?

    More loot in the 25 man? That would be great if it weren't for one little problem...there are more people in the 25 man.

    So lets' see...I can either get into a 10 man with my hunter where the odds of me having to compete against another hunter or a shaman are greatly reduced so my odds of getting the gear I want are sitting at probably 50/50 or perhaps even 100%.

    Or I can choose to do a 25 man where the odds of me having to compete against more hunters/shamans for my gear are increased and there for the odds of me getting the gear I want in a 25 man are less than in a 10 man.

    This is the way many will see things and if they can only do one per week they'll do the one that gives them the better odds. So again I ask why not just save yourselves the trouble and make all raids 10 mans? Cause that's essentially what I see happening anyways.

  4. #1704

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcdrock
    •10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout.
    Thats a good thing because now people feel forced to run both 25 mans and 10 mans.

    •10-Man and 25-Man raids difficulty will be as close as possible to each other.
    This has some flaws, class balancing has never been perfect.
    If Blizzard is going trough with this and 10 mans will be harder the lowest dps class will just be left outside.
    Also if 10 mans get harder it will only lower the amount of people that will get to see content.

    •10-Man and 25-Man raids will drop the exact same loot, but 25-man will drop a higher quantity of items.
    This is just silly if you ask me,
    10 man will always be abit easier because you only have 10 people instead of 25.
    Doing it with 25 man causes alot more problems forming raids and progressing on bosses and i think it should be more rewarding because of those things.

    Overall i really dont see whats wrong with the current system and i think that if these changes go trough it will work the other way around and only less people will see the content.
    I don't see how they are going to make 10mans harder when one of blizzards current favorite things to make fight more challenging is GTFO of the way stuff. Which is why 25mans are harder because you have to have 25 people dodgeing this and that not 10.

  5. #1705

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by ragingsoul
    you're forgetting 1 thing. When you can down bosses on 25men HC, the execution in 10men is completely faceroll. I'm pretty sure you can downgrade your gear and still easily make it.
    you have more room for error on 10men, which you can't have on 25men hc. make a perfect run on 25men hc, then 10men is piss easy.
    This is only because of the amount of room you have on some fights. Something like Heroic Sindragosa, the margin for error is pretty much the same on 25 as it is in 10. I can name 20 mistakes that will do the same amount of damage proportionately to each raid size.

    But then you have a fight like Blood Queen. On 25m hard mode the 2nd air phase can kill 10 people because everyone is trying to find a safe spot to spread out in, but on 10 man, it's pretty much guaranteed that you won't be near someone.

    Since movement is such a huge part of raiding today, having more room is a HUGE advantage, and that's really the only thing that makes 10m "easier" now. Given an infinite amount of space for all encounters, the margin for error would be pretty much the same. Actually, if space wasn't an issue, 2 people dying on 10 man hurts more than 2 people dying on 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron081790
    What i am thinking they will do is make 25mans give slightly more loot to make it worth doing. I know alot of people on this forum can probably back that up. so maybe the ratio will be 2/10 10mans and 6/25 on 25mans 3 times the loot but not 3 times the raiders.
    That's the least they could do really, at least 25 men raids would have the perk of getting your guild geared faster.

    EX - <PIE CHART> US TOP 10 Check 'em out http://piechart-guild.com/

  6. #1706

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by M1kra

    I also hope that Realm First! Achievements will work on 10man with this change.
    If they do this they realy kill the 25raids.
    Every on knows that HC guild strive for first kills.
    Every one knows it will ALWAYS be easier to clear 10-man then 25-man (less ppl that can fuck upp)
    And if the 10-man and 25-man compete eachother for the achivment, why whould HC guilds like Paragon/For the Horde/Ensidia etc bother going 25 when that will result in a loss in the race?

  7. #1707

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixhart
    Almost as much as 25man Raiders who are slowly being disillusioned to the fact they got significantly better gear for a not as significantly more difficult instance.
    right, cause LK 10 and 25 are the same difficulty maybe? lol..

    25men normal raids are too easy for what it is, but 25men hard modes are not the same. 1 mistake on HC and it's a wipe, 1 mistake in 10 players or 25men players, the difficulty is not the same.
    If you haven't done HC yet, then please don't try to generalize, and stick to what you know. miss information is increasing like a plague these days.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
    i7 920@ 3.4Ghz, Gigabyte X58A-UD7, 6GB Ram Triple Channel OCZ @ 1900Mhz, CrossFire HD 5850 1Gb, Vertex 3 240Gb, BenQ M2700HD. G15 Keyboard

  8. #1708

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Reah
    All I have to ask is why not save the trouble and programming it will take to implement this and just simply make all raids 10 mans?

    You still get the same results....can only do one a week...the gear and challenege is suppose to be the same as 25 man. so what's the difference?

    More loot in the 25 man? That would be great if it weren't for one little problem...there are more people in the 25 man.

    So lets' see...I can either get into a 10 man with my hunter where the odds of me having to compete against another hunter or a shaman are greatly reduced so my odds of getting the gear I want are sitting at probably 50/50 or perhaps even 100%.

    Or I can choose to do a 25 man where the odds of me having to compete against more hunters/shamans for my gear are increased and there for the odds of me getting the gear I want in a 25 man are less than in a 10 man.

    This is the way many will see things and if they can only do one per week they'll do the one that gives them the better odds. So again I ask why not just save yourselves the trouble and make all raids 10 mans? Cause that's essentially what I see happening anyways.
    agree

  9. #1709

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Sfr528
    If 10 and 25 are to be mirrored difficulties, this means that the raids are going to be dumbed down. It's a fact, there is absolutely no way to make 25man as easy as 10man unless you dumb it down.
    Yep, I said this a few posts ago, glad someone else realizes this. There's no way you can give as much depth to a 10 man that you can give to a 25 man and keep them the same difficulty.

    It's really wait and see though, I'm hoping when I jump into Cataclysm raiding the first few weeks, it's fun and rewarding. We just won't know until then, and that's the sad truth.

    EX - <PIE CHART> US TOP 10 Check 'em out http://piechart-guild.com/

  10. #1710

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Reah
    All I have to ask is why not save the trouble and programming it will take to implement this and just simply make all raids 10 mans?

    You still get the same results....can only do one a week...the gear and challenege is suppose to be the same as 25 man. so what's the difference?

    More loot in the 25 man? That would be great if it weren't for one little problem...there are more people in the 25 man.

    So lets' see...I can either get into a 10 man with my hunter where the odds of me having to compete against another hunter or a shaman are greatly reduced so my odds of getting the gear I want are sitting at probably 50/50 or perhaps even 100%.

    Or I can choose to do a 25 man where the odds of me having to compete against more hunters/shamans for my gear are increased and there for the odds of me getting the gear I want in a 25 man are less than in a 10 man.

    This is the way many will see things and if they can only do one per week they'll do the one that gives them the better odds. So again I ask why not just save yourselves the trouble and make all raids 10 mans? Cause that's essentially what I see happening anyways.
    Agree

  11. #1711

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by G l o w y r m

    It's really wait and see though, I'm hoping when I jump into Cataclysm raiding the first few weeks, it's fun and rewarding. We just won't know until then, and that's the sad truth.
    AGREED

  12. #1712
    The Lightbringer imabanana's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Reah
    More loot in the 25 man? That would be great if it weren't for one little problem...there are more people in the 25 man.

    So lets' see...I can either get into a 10 man with my hunter where the odds of me having to compete against another hunter or a shaman are greatly reduced so my odds of getting the gear I want are sitting at probably 50/50 or perhaps even 100%.

    Or I can choose to do a 25 man where the odds of me having to compete against more hunters/shamans for my gear are increased and there for the odds of me getting the gear I want in a 25 man are less than in a 10 man.
    This was so stupid. Try this for example :

    10 man dropping 2 items/boss (= 1 item for 5 players)
    25 man dropping 6 items/boss (= 1 item for 4.15 players)

    With, as blizzard states, the same difficulty in 20 and 25 man -> you have a higher chance to loot something in 25 man.

    Or just read the initial post :
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    25-player versions will drop a higher quantity of loot per player (items, but also badges, and even gold)
    Oh, hi.

  13. #1713

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Tears..... so delicious
    Quote Originally Posted by Health View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereign View Post
    Besides, you don't gain any knowledge of a useful spec if you level as BM
    When you're asleep, me and an enchancement shaman are gonna enter your room and beastcleave you to tears.

  14. #1714

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ysilla
    This was so stupid. Try this for example :

    10 man dropping 2 items/boss (= 1 item for 5 players)
    25 man dropping 6 items/boss (= 1 item for 4.15 players)

    With, as blizzard states, the same difficulty in 20 and 25 man -> you have a higher chance to loot something in 25 man.

    Or just read the initial post :
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    25-player versions will drop a higher quantity of loot per player (items, but also badges, and even gold)
    The problem here is that in 10-man you often just go with 1 of each class = you have more or less monoboly on the item that drops. in 25-man your often 3-4 chars hunting the same items...... you can do the math

  15. #1715

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I thought Blizzard was doing a good thing in WotLK when they introduced the 10/25 split, and hard mode achievements. Everyone unanimously agreed that allowing casuals to see raid content was a brilliant move.

    Now I regret it.

    You give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want all your cookies, and your cake, and if he can't have it all he will demand that Blizzard throw your cake in the trash.

  16. #1716

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    you whiners are all frickin retarded, my god your egos are so big, get out of the cellar every once in a while
    The World of Warcraft is a game of much complexity, sometimes there's fire, and you have to not stand in it


    xheouls guide to wow.

  17. #1717

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I don't like the change because we won't be able to sell 10 man mounts and achievements for insane amounts of gold to the "more gold than skills" population on the weekends

  18. #1718
    The Lightbringer imabanana's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Zekie
    The problem here is that in 10-man you often just go with 1 of each class = you have more or less monoboly on the item that drops. in 25-man your often 3-4 chars hunting the same items...... you can do the math
    I think you're getting confused, I'm talking about 25man raids, not 40 man (1 of each class in 10 but 4 of each in 25 ? I'd guess that makes 40 man raid, not 25 xD), and just look the post you quoted, the math is inside :
    Oh, hi.

  19. #1719

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Well I also was able to sneak in on the meeting where Blizzard discussed this plan. Seems like from what I heard they will also be adding some other things to come standard with the Cataclysm expansion when you buy it....

    New Items in Standard Box Set Include -
    -Helmet(Never know what injuries you may aquire while rolling head across keyboard with no rhyme or reason)
    -Coloring Book(For those nights when you just feel like expressing your true skill at the game, dont forget kids, inside the lines!)
    -Loot codes to all no longer obtainable mounts!!(Want a Gladiator drake? Sure its yours!!!)
    -Loot Pinata(CD is 1hr, has a very very low chance(~95%) to give you a legendary when struck)

    Also it seems like they will still have Realm First Achievements in the game, however it doesnt matter whether or not you got the first kill on your realm or 50th, just take the achievement!! You earned it!

    What a terrible idea this is, go back to the way BC was. 10s and 25s are their own entities. You guys built 5 years of success off of it, stick with what works..

  20. #1720

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Okay, so I made an account only to post on this thread. but srsly..

    Blizzard, if this goes live, farwell. It will be the end, and you will loose all your veteran players, and trust me, people are not starting the game now. Making the 10 and 25 dropping same loot, WHAT THE efff.???


    If this goes live, im done for good. The only reason I didnt quit after wotlk came out was because I enjoyed so much playin in my 25man raids. Making the game more and more casual has compleatly ruined the game, and by this, it will pretty much be it.

    (The limited attempt system was one of the worst idea in history as well. It was really enjoyable loggin alts to try new encounters, just to not loose tries)



    Stop ruining the f**king game

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