[ENH] Fun little excercise

[SolSphere]

So I was reviewing my logs and found a couple things I needed to improve on. But at the same time I also realized I have no clue as to what my uptimes should standardly be.

So I decided to have a fun little view and point out session here.

Things to note. This is not a thread on what I should be gearing, switch atk for haste blah balh blah. Any responses to this please be about the World of Logs post I am putting up. Dealing with the buffs/debuffs, of this particular fight. If you need to know my stats, click my link. Please do not comment on gear though. Do not want this to be a gear discussion, I am loking for for HOW TO READ logs type responses, and what to look for in them.


Example:

You didn't pot twice for this fight. Rememebr to use one right before you go into combat, and one right after:

The first pot CD wears off
or
After hero
or
When you next woves are available

2nd Example:

Your Flame Shock's uptime could be a little higher 80% is a little low. Try to manage it a little more.


1. 4/27/10 World of Logs
2. 5/4/10 World of Logs parries...
3. 5/11/10 World of Logs
----------

If you feel you absolutely need to see my armory for whatever reason, it's in my sig... Again, I don't care to hear about my gear. This dicussion is not just for me either. It's for all of us. So please try to make your responses make sense.

[Primaryjane]

where's the link?

[SolSphere]

work browser fails me. I have to wait a sec to be able to edit it in... Something to do with cookies I guess.

Edit: There is goes

[Primaryjane]

I'm not quite sure exactly what you're looking for. I would like to ask though why it shows that you cast Flame Shock 16 times and Earth Shock only 14 times? Besides that it looks pretty good to me.

[Vargarii]

I'm not quite sure exactly what you're looking for. I would like to ask though why it shows that you cast Flame Shock 16 times and Earth Shock only 14 times? Besides that it looks pretty good to me.

I'm assuming it's because Shaman caste flame shock at a near 1/1 ratio, and depending on his gcd availability, he simply didn't cast a few earth shocks during the fight.


While I don't know what in particular you want to pull from your log, I will mention that your dmg values on abilities seem to be where they should be. My logs usually show most of the passive abilities at the top with things like stormstrike/lava lash/earth shock all within 1-2% dmg of each other and necrotic touch/tiny abom(If you have one) mixed in down there as well.

[Deleted]

Why the questions it is clear he wants guidance on how to read a log file.

A simple enough check I often did was to look at the buffs I had and their uptime then I'd compare that with what I'd expected in Rawr's buff list. It is very telling if you are expecting a +3% hit buff up 100% from your Moonkin druid but find it was missing on a boss. ie: Moonkin forgot to cast Faerie Fire or to keep it up if fight was long.

So check EVERY buff you expected to have vs how much you actually had and you may find things like (picking on Moonkins again) hmm no imp faerie fire buff at all - but he did cast it. You investigate further and realise OMG we took a Moonkin but he isn't specced for Imp.Faerie Fire so no-one in the raid got the 3% +hit buff.

Since buffs presence or absence can be the biggest difference in dps for Enh Shammys this is well worth checking to see if your buffers (especially the in combat buffers) are actually providing the buff. So things that should be present but aren't. This even effects your shammys did you bother co-ordinating your totems? Or did every shammy do their own thing and actually nobody bothered putting down a Flametongue thus the whole raid missed out on the +spellpower buff.

This is the sort of thing the OP was looking for I suspect.

[Tinomen]

Since buffs presence or absence can be the biggest difference in dps for Enh Shammys this is well worth checking to see if your buffers (especially the in combat buffers) are actually providing the buff. So things that should be present but aren't. This even effects your shammys did you bother co-ordinating your totems? Or did every shammy do their own thing and actually nobody bothered putting down a Flametongue thus the whole raid missed out on the +spellpower buff.

This is why I really wish WoL logged totem buffs, anyone know why they aren't in any of the logs?

[SolSphere]

Why the questions it is clear he wants guidance on how to read a log file.

A simple enough check I often did was to look at the buffs I had and their uptime then I'd compare that with what I'd expected in Rawr's buff list. It is very telling if you are expecting a +3% hit buff up 100% from your Moonkin druid but find it was missing on a boss. ie: Moonkin forgot to cast Faerie Fire or to keep it up if fight was long.

So check EVERY buff you expected to have vs how much you actually had and you may find things like (picking on Moonkins again) hmm no imp faerie fire buff at all - but he did cast it. You investigate further and realise OMG we took a Moonkin but he isn't specced for Imp.Faerie Fire so no-one in the raid got the 3% +hit buff.

Since buffs presence or absence can be the biggest difference in dps for Enh Shammys this is well worth checking to see if your buffers (especially the in combat buffers) are actually providing the buff. So things that should be present but aren't. This even effects your shammys did you bother co-ordinating your totems? Or did every shammy do their own thing and actually nobody bothered putting down a Flametongue thus the whole raid missed out on the +spellpower buff.

This is the sort of thing the OP was looking for I suspect.

This is mostly what I'm more or less looking for. I had not been checking other people who we bring to the raid to see if their buffs were up on me, or debuffs on the boss to see if they were up as much as expected. So that helps me conclude why on some fights I do better than on others.

[Vargarii]

This is mostly what I'm more or less looking for. I had not been checking other people who we bring to the raid to see if their buffs were up on me, or debuffs on the boss to see if they were up as much as expected. So that helps me conclude why on some fights I do better than on others.

That won't be entirely why you change fight to fight, though.

Every shamans's dps on a particular fight is also heavily affected by their guilds strategy, as well as our classe's rng.

For instance, my best fights are marrowgar/saurfang/festergut/rotface/BQL becuase on those fights, I can get a lot of face time on the bosses, even in hard modes where you're chasing things like the bone graveyards during bonestorm for marrowgar.

The terrible ones are the ones where your guild may require you to get little face time on bosses/adds because of their particular strat. Such as deathwhisper/put/sindrigosa/dreamwalker because there's a lot of traveltime, althout in normals you can sometimes get by with strats that let you pull high dps, my issue in HMS is that put ALWAYS requires a lot of movement, and Iend up taking huge dps hits.

Blood princes and lk kind of fall in the middle on these, because while there is quite a bit of movement, you are able to maintain a lot more time on the mobs than you can in the others.

The buff information you're looking for the he mentioned is definately useful information, but less so if you simply want to know what causes your dps differences between fights, as there are so many factors for each encounter, and the for each strategy on top of that.

Regardless of that, it is really helpful information, especially when you are trying to dig up key differences between your simmed dps and your actual dps(excluding mechanic differences and the imperfect play of humans).

[SolSphere]

Well of course that's always something to take into consideration. The fight i linked was a DBS fight. And probably not he best to link for people to talk about. It was actually one of my better done parses. I reiterated not to care to much about my armory, but had someone actually gone to it and looked I'm an engineer. And there is something missing from that parse. Bombs.... And had I actually done used them, that would have probably pushed my really close to 14K if not got me over it.

Someone had mentioned to me FS/ES. I'm pretty sure that the response given was most likely what happened. I don't remember the specifics of the encounter anymore, so I can't recall if I missed any or not. I usually remember if I click the wrong one. But my FS right now last 14.63 seconds unbuffed, and out of combat. So it gets damn close to 12 seconds which would be a perfect FS/ES rotation. Tonight I'm speccing into reverb, so I may actually get a couple more of each ability in.

I was looking at the debuffs on the boss. And I saw that misery was sitting at 0.0 with 0% uptime. Guild mentioned to me that the boomkin buff might override it, but it wasn't up 100% of the time. 98. somthign-or-other, but not 100% wonder why that is.

One concern I'm going to have this week though is my crit. I am no longer using Whispering Fang Skull. Finally got tiny Abomination in a Jar to drop, which actually kinda sucks. We were working on hardmode and should have gotten it. We ran out of time if wanted to kill Lich King. We did it on normal. Trinket drops.. Two people were up for it I got it. We go to lich king. Axe drops.. DK gets it because a) more limited choices b) I just got the trinket. Shoot me, kthnx. But anywho yeah I'm using Tiny Abom from now on. Previously though when we didn't have a feral druid in the raid, I did better than we we did, in comparson to the rest of the melee. What I mean by that is I think I had so much crit (over 63% on character sheet) that I don't think the feral druid was doing me much good. He would increase my DPS, but I could actually beat the other DPS. When he joined the raid I dropped back down to 3rd,4th,5th positions. But now that I'm loosing the trinket, maybe he'll be better for me? Is there a point at which crit just doesn't really matter anymore? I don't really have a log for that right now though, to compare. I could sim it I know, and I have, but that's not really the information I'm looking for. I'm talking about comparing to the rest of my melee team there. I can't sim them.

[Vargarii]

I don't really recognize the name of the person who commented about your es, either. They may simply be up to date on our dps priorities. As far as the crit, was this 63% with buffs in or out of combat? I have about 68% in combat once I get ED up, so if you were that high prior to combat, I can understand that that would be rather high.

As far as a point for crit being an issue:

http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t87972-e...ysis_tow_hotc/

is a big discussion about crit cap and all. You'll have to account for your buffs/debuffs yourself to know where you fall.

[SolSphere]

I'm fine on crit cap (so far as I know according to that thread and RAWR). I meant more practically. There has to be some point at which you've so much crit that adding more just doesn't do a lot. For instance that 3% from feral druids.

My 63% is OOC, but fully buffed.

[Vargarii]

I'm fine on crit cap (so far as I know according to that thread and RAWR). I meant more practically. There has to be some point at which you've so much crit that adding more just doesn't do a lot. For instance that 3% from feral druids.

My 63% is OOC, but fully buffed.

As far as I know, that point is crit cap. Not so much because you don't want to crit cap, but because it's hard not to do so with heroic gear. That's what all the hit is coming in for. You can stack hit on top of crit cap to aim for maximum white crits. Also at that point, you're only getting crit for your spells out of rating, and agi crit is useless. Although I know you said you knew the crit cap and your place for it, I'm just saying that you probably shouldn't be so focused on the crit until you need to balance around cap.

[SolSphere]

I know all of that. I talking in a complete non mathematical way. Just observation of when we have a feral druid the melee toons in our guild are not equally affected in DPS numbers wise. Say our rogues go up 10% dps, but i only go up 5% with the addition of a feral druid (without one I loose 5% they loose 10%). Those are obviously fake numbers only used to help clarify what I am talking about view wise.

But anyway pushing forward. I just had a completely trash parse of the boss. I added the link to the OP. It includes some blocks and parries. Obviously this means I wasn't behind the boss (but i actually was). So apparently I found some special spot that allows me to not get the error message "target must be in front of you" but be so on top of the boss that my hits were registered as coming from the front. Enjoy making un of that one...

BTW if anyone in similar gear has some parses they would like to share and compare (better dps or lower dps) please feel free. ANOTEHR DISCLAIMER. Please do not try to turn this into a my DPS is better than yours war. I'm trying to learn, and at the same time hoping others can learn from parses with this post.

Thanks.

[Vargarii]

That makes sense, we have a substantial crit rate to begin with, so I can understand if it may pan out to being a smaller dps boost when it's so high anyway.


Your parry mention got me looking, I got parried too, albeit only once, during the fight and there was no way I could have been behind the boss.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...2/?s=227&e=432

That's a little weird.

They are in my logs from last month, as well.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...r/details/129/


I'm not really sure if this is position or stat related, but the parses I have from last month have a LOT more of the parries.

[Izzirez]

I normally check the FS uptime, the amount of ES and FS comparatively to each other, buff uptime, and check how efficient he was on using his maelstrom weapons. Take the amount of lightning bolts he used, multiply it by 5 (for each mw proc used), and divide it by the number of total maelstrom weapon procs he got. When CL comes into play or he used them on heals it gets a bit tricky though. But for saurfang/fester when he can just dps away, it works pretty well. Even my best MW efficiency has only been in the 80-82% range, mostly due to gcd constraints.

[Fornaw]

Parries from DBS?

Most likely he turns when he's dropping Boiling Blood on a melee, mobs seem to have to face in a direction for a finite amount of time, even for instant cast spells, that would be the likely culprit imo, unless of course you're chasing adds or something.

If I had to guess they only sample the direction a mob wants to face every so often, that sample rate would give you a minimum time facing in a given direction.

[SolSphere]

Parries from DBS?

Most likely he turns when he's dropping Boiling Blood on a melee, mobs seem to have to face in a direction for a finite amount of time, even for instant cast spells, that would be the likely culprit imo, unless of course you're chasing adds or something.

If I had to guess they only sample the direction a mob wants to face every so often, that sample rate would give you a minimum time facing in a given direction.

Well I know we have some strange attempts where teh boss decides that he only wants to mark melee for a bit. So maybe that is the case, and I just got the shitty end of the RNG stick when he turned. I got a lot of parries and blocks for a ~4 min span. I'll review it and see how all got marked, and how much runic power he got (frequency at which he was turning).