ICC 25 and 25H Haste, Holy?

[Lamiae]

Can someone give me a general idea?
I'm sitting around 22% raid buffed, but things are seeming a tad slow. I was planning on regemming yellow sockets for solid haste and red for haste+SP, but I don't want to go overboard (or do I? ???)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...enor&cn=Lamiae

[harky]

You're not at 22% raid buffed, just so you know. You're at 31.9%.

You're above what's 'needed' for ICC (around 655), but more really doesn't hurt at all. I don't like having less than about 960 haste myself, but it's up to personal taste. Honestly, ask yourself a simple question: Are you happy with the amount of haste you have?

If you are, then don't worry about it. If you're not then get more. Regemming solid haste is what a lot of people have done in 277 gear and it's certainly a good option.

[Azyure]

Imo, its about a balance between spirit crit and haste, i dont think theres a wrong way to do it, but rememebr that you have talents and procs based on crit, i.e: PoM, renew, PoH, SoL. Right now i think depending on what your healing style is, sitting around 25-30% haste and 30-35% crit is a good place to be if your regen is good enough. On a side note i would look at speccing out of lightwell and spell warding and speccing into 5/5 devine fury. Remember you have BH to heal you and a target to increase throughput while your taking damage and healing yourself. Even if you rarely use it i think having a fast greater heal in an o shit situation is better than using lightwell, unless your dps are used to using it, which doesnt seem to be the cases most of the time. Lastly inb4 flaming, i dont claim to be a perfect priest, this is just my thought.

[Zeuq]

@ OMG

Crit really is a non-issue. Besides that you ought to have plenty just from Intellect and gear where you can't avoid Crit, the talents that use Crit don't warrant more of it. It procs Holy Concentration, which just means more mana that you probably don't need, and potentially more SoL procs, which you probably won't use. IMO, the balance in ICC and H ICC is primarily between SP and Haste since they are far and away the best throughput stats.


In that regard, harky is pretty much saud it all. Personally, I feel like I favor SP more than other Priests do (ie, I haven't gemmed pure Haste), but I feel like it's the best fit for my style. If you feel like you're slow, as you seem to indicate in the OP, gemming more Haste will probably benefit you.

[Auraye]

I seem to recall reading someplace on EJ that you experience diminishing returns over 30% crit. Being a Disc priest myself, I'm sure it was a post directed at Disc priesting, but I can't imagine Holy having any more use for crit than a Disc priest. I can see the extra crit inflating overheals more than help. However, Disc can be applying Divine Aegis with crit overheals.

For Holy, I'd think haste will provide the greatest utility as long as your mana pool can support it, especially since your role is reactive heals. Nearly all of your healing spells will benefit from it, and that improved reaction could be the difference between life and wipe.

[jifjosh]

However, Disc can be applying Divine Aegis with crit overheals

From the PWS glyph while they do nothing by shield spam?

[Lamiae]

From the PWS glyph while they do nothing by shield spam?

O.O Catty!


Anyways, I realized I logged out in my Disc spec, can't fix that since I'm at work. I raid as holy except for LK, so my haste is a bit lower than what you see.

RE: spec, There are a few DPS (Holyvas, you're my hero) that use the lolwell. As for divine fury: I almost never cast Gheal except when I hit the key by mistake.

My issue is lowering my GCD and getting my PoH's off faster. I struggle near the end of Sindragosa, and ended up swapping to the Chieftan's Staff for more haste. (May have been a bad move, but it made me feel better, and we beat her that fight yay!)

I've looked at some priests that rank on worldoflogs, and I see some who gem 20 haste, haste+SP, Haste+Spi for blue sockets. Crit/Intellect is a non-issue atm, since I can't go OOM unless I GH7 spam with my thumb up my ass.

So in edit to my question- What haste do you feel comfortable at/wish you had? IDK that I'll be happy until I make it to the 1000+ club ^.^

[harky]

As I mentioned in my first reply, I'm not comfortable as Holy under ~960 haste. The reason is actually pretty simple: When you hit 40% haste with raid buffs, which occurs at 966 haste, you will have 14 GCDs during a single Renew duration. This let's you keep a total of about 12 Renews up at any particular moment of a fight. This is using CoH when needed, PoM every 10 seconds and Renew otherwise. It's simply to line up GCDs well for my most common playstyle. The side benefit is that this puts your Prayer of Healing down a 2.14 seconds without Serendipity, making it much easier to use in relation to typical damage aura fights, which deal damage every 2 seconds. Having more than this isn't nearly as noticeable until you hit the GCD hard cap at 1,269 haste. It is nice to have more, but it ultimately doesn't offer a very large gain.

So if you can gem pure haste and come close to either 1,269 haste, or 966 haste then it's a very good call. If you're not then it's more of a gray area. Some will have Haste as their primary stat, but still gem other stats. Some will have SP as their primary stat. Then some will be going pure haste. There isn't really a wrong answer. Typically the closer you are to best-in-slot gear the more you should prioritize haste, but even that isn't requirement. Also keep in mind that since the worth of Haste increases with the worth of SP (and vice versa) and you'll get SP on every item, most Priests tend to favor Haste gemming. Whatever you decide, try to keep it consistent. If you think SP is more important, then go with +23 SP, +12 SP/+10 Haste and +12 SP/+10 Spirit while using +23 SP in sockets with bonuses you don't want. If you think Haste is more important than go +12 SP/+10 Haste, +20 Haste and +10 Haste/+10 Spirit while using +20 Haste in sockets with bonuses you don't want. However, if you decide that other stats aren't needed, then only use gems to activate your IED, then gem +20 Haste in all sockets. This is typically done if you find that more Spellpower is resulting in higher over-healing. This typically starts to come up when you're pushing beyond 4k SP buffed and by the 4.5k range it can be very noticeable.

[Maxpowr]

I think as the ICC buff gets bigger and bigger, holy priests will depend less on SP and more on haste.

Even now, my gemming strat is...

red- SP & Haste
yellow - Haste
blue - Haste & Spirit

With all my raid buffs, I'm sitting around 4330 SP and with the buff I notice how potent my heals have become and for many fights, it just is not necessary.

[whiskey_oktober]

I seem to recall reading someplace on EJ that you experience diminishing returns over 30% crit.

I'm fairly confident that this was directed @ holy exclusively, and mainly in regards to HC uptime. That being said, it's been a while since i've read anything on EJ.

[Kelesti]

After the 10% buff, and now the 15% buff, if you're still gemming Spell Power, I have to ask why? I mean, unless you enjoy pushing further overheal, at this point in the game shifting to either a haste priority, or full haste (with the exception of meta) will result in a net gain in outgoing healing, as well as faster recovery for all damage patterns, easier renew blanketing, pretty much EVERYTHING.

So again, why go with SP when you get SP for free? Grab the haste, and be better for it.

[Auraye]

From the PWS glyph while they do nothing by shield spam?

That'd be a unskilled Disc priest. Don't judge all based on the action of one. Just like any other class, a player must adjust their attacks or heals according to the fight.

I'm fairly confident that this was directed @ holy exclusively, and mainly in regards to HC uptime. That being said, it's been a while since i've read anything on EJ.

That figure may have been specifically for Holy, seeing that a lot of the healing threads address both specs, but paid extra love to Holy. Discipline's returns on DA procs should have inflated now since Divine Aegis stacks to 10k since patch...was it 3.3? I, too, don't visit EJ often anymore.

[Nasara]

@Lamiae

On a side note, I noticed you haven't specced for Body and Soul - it's definitely worth it! Gogo!

[Argan]

You deffinatly want Blessed resilience, its basicly 3% more total healing.. empowered healing is not as good since it only affects flash heal's bonus healing(its not actually augmenting ur flash heals by 16%). So it take away those 4 points in empowered healing and put 3 in blessed resilience, the last one prolly in body and soul, its pretty useful to use on urself in plenty of situations. Also, you can take the point out of llightwell (honestly, if your other raid members arent use to running with it, they wont know hot to use it properly) and put it in inner focus, i combine it with divine hymn to make it free, and its pretty much a desprate measure when the whole raid is sub 40% or something, it heal 80k in like 7 seconds.

[G l o w y r m]

** Below is just my opinion after healing all current end game Heroic content **

Well, looking at your armory right this second, your Haste is at 29.8% (977 rating) and that's good. 850-1k is a nice goal (a nice goal when you have access to more 277 pieces otherwise I feel you lose too much SP, IMHO). You're at 23% Crit, I usually try to not go below 25% but that's no biggie and you'll get it by time you upgrade a few of your 251 pieces. I would say your Haste/Crit is very well balanced right now for Holy spec...BUT.......

Personally, I think your Spell Power could use a little boost. I would regem 10hst/10spr to 12sp/10spr, 20hst to 12sp/10hst, and 12sp/10hst to 23sp. If you do that, you'll lose 5.8% Haste and you'll be sitting at 24% Haste unbuffed but you'll gain 225 Spell Power and go from 3341 to 3566, which is a really big boost.

24% plus a few buffs and you should be sitting around at least 33% (Imp Moonkin/Imp Ret Aura's + Wrath of Air). And once you get 2 tokens to get 264 legs/gloves (I would also recommend picking up the Corpse-Impaling Spike wand when it drops) you'll be @ 35%+ Haste which is a great number at your gear score, all while getting a significant boost to Spell Power (especially when factoring in the ICC buff, which makes SP more powerful)

You could even keep your three 12sp/10hst gems in your three red slots so you don't lose as much Haste but still get a much needed (IMO) SP boost. Or you can mix and match if you don't feel comfortable with my advice to gain some SP and keep whatever Haste you really feel you need.

In short, the Haste you are at now is a great goal to strive for, but I think it means sacrificing too much Spell Power when you're doing it in 251/264 gear instead of 264/277 gear. Of course everyone will feel a little differently about it, if you're rich I suggest regeming and trying it out for a few raids and log the difference the Spell Power makes compared to the 5.8% Haste.

Also, 3/3 Blessed Resilience > 4/5 Empowered Healing, unless you use Greater Healing very often. Which isn't a great idea anyway lol.

From the PWS glyph while they do nothing by shield spam?

Only bad Disc Priests do nothing but shield spam It's all about weaving spells in between them to take advantage of as many Borrowed Time procs as possible.

I think as the ICC buff gets bigger and bigger, holy priests will depend less on SP and more on haste.

...

With all my raid buffs, I'm sitting around 4330 SP and with the buff I notice how potent my heals have become and for many fights, it just is not necessary.

To Part 1 of your Quote: When you reach a certain Spell Power, I kinda agree. On normal modes definitely, but on Heroic fights, the bigger heals aren't as wasted, which leads me to...

Part 2 of your Quote: Is that on Heroic encounters like Sindragosa, Putricide, and Blood Queen? Big heals are great on those fights and it's hard for healing to be easily wasted.

[Maxpowr]

To Part 1 of your Quote: When you reach a certain Spell Power, I kinda agree. On normal modes definitely, but on Heroic fights, the bigger heals aren't as wasted, which leads me to...

Part 2 of your Quote: Is that on Heroic encounters like Sindragosa, Putricide, and Blood Queen? Big heals are great on those fights and it's hard for healing to be easily wasted.

I have done heroic BQL before and it is definately an intense fight but not that hard. Haven't attempted heroic PP or Sindra yet so I can't make judgement there. Atm I am sitting at 875 haste and 3621 SP (and 24.12% holy crit). I feel that I need more haste and less SP (need some pieces to drop to even it out too). On fights like heroic Saurfang and Dreamwalker, I just feel so inept because my spells feel slow.

[Nasara]

the last one prolly in body and soul, its pretty useful to use on urself in plenty of situations.

2 points and use it on others as well as yourself in loaaaaads of situations - think of all the times when raiders need to move fast.

[Kelesti]

I have done heroic BQL before and it is definately an intense fight but not that hard. Haven't attempted heroic PP or Sindra yet so I can't make judgement there. Atm I am sitting at 875 haste and 3621 SP (and 24.12% holy crit). I feel that I need more haste and less SP (need some pieces to drop to even it out too). On fights like heroic Saurfang and Dreamwalker, I just feel so inept because my spells feel slow.

One often overlooked suggestion I have is the Bejeweled Wizard Bracers (Tailoring Pattern from ToC). You'll drop some spell power, but that's a huge chunk of haste to pick up.

[Checksmix]

People often misunderstanding body and soul. If used on say Blood queen when 3 people are packed. it can make the raid take a lot less damage!
Some one messes up on Sindragosa on ice tomb placement, BoS and there over there in time!
The tank on Rotface needs to move faster!
Doing Proff Achievement (Orange slimes),getting to the green slime target in time!
You fucking bored and you can zip around faster!
Getting as few stacks of Shadow Prison as possible! (BP H)
Getting away from Ghosts! (Deathwipser)

[Lamiae]

Thanks for all the help! Respec incoming!

You talked me into body and soul =P.