Raiding in blues: The <Undergeared> Chronicles

[Deluziion]

grats on the kill ;D

[Memory]

Very nice. I was away for some weeks and missed your post about ToC, I'm reading your homepage right now, good laughs: the sad truth is that ToC is significantly easier than Ulduar in the same gear. ToC is at the same difficulty as Naxx, just gives 232-245 gear ;D

I love this post and the ToC predecessor. For those people claiming that WotLK is not too easy because "Have you killed LK 25 Heroic?" is the only argument they can come up with...how bout this argument, "have you downed the 3rd tier of content wearing full blues and started clearing the 4th tier of content still wearing full blues?". I'm so glad that someone out there can answer yes to that second question

My same thought.

Btw. did anyone ever ytry AQ in Blue Stuff? or Black Temple? Maybe that was possible too? What you Guys always forget is, that many players have played wow since 3+ years, and simply know what to do if the boss does this or that.

Never tried, but I'm pretty confident T6 could be cleared with blue gear. That's no brainer tho.
First of all, gear level in the BC didn't increase at the same rate as it does in the WotLK; level 115 blue gear from heroic dungeons was pretty close to Karazhan quality, which item level was 115 as well. If you consider that we got the same item level situation between level 200 WotLK blue gear and level 200 Naxxramas-10 gear, now add every 25-man and hard mode setting to the parabola and you will see why item level in the WotLK took a completely different way.
Also, do you even know the Burning Crusade had level 70 epic items which were lower level than the best blues in game? The original BoJ epics and the epics from heroic dungeons were level 110; faction epic rewards were even level 100.
Therefore BC blue gear and WotLK blue gear aren't quite the same thing: your analogy attempts to draw together two terms of comparison that only share a seeming identity yet aren't identical at all (and no need to mention the fact that level 115 blue gear was overall harder to obtain than level 200 gear has ever been).

In the so called 'hardcore' Burning Crusade, where apparently only no-lifers could see the end content, gear had a 'minor' role and level 115 (epic) gear was viable for about everything before SWP. In the so called 'casual' WotLK, item level goes skyrocket and you 'have to' mindlessly farm emblems to exponentially upgrade the gear that will let you see the end content. Or maybe you don't have to, since most stuff can be cleared with blue gear. Simply, in any way you put it, WotLK gear is inflated, and even Blizzard knows that. Character progression in the Burning Crusade was far better, in my opinion (and probably not in Blizzard's opinion tho).

Moreover, Black Temple and Mount Hyjal were widely recognized as being too easy in the year 2007 already, the epic heaven for those top guilds that could beat Kael and Vashj. So if you think you're shocking someone with questioning whether BT could have been cleared with blue gear, well, you're not.

[Deleted]

I think it's very easy to underestimate the impact blue gear has on your raid. DPS would be pulling 3k max? Healers would be healing so little it's unreal, and the crazy thing is their tanks have 25k health. Normal ICC tanks have what, 40k?

Marrowgar's cleave alone hits for 20k if I'm not mistaken. Props to the healers!

[malkara]

Copy-paste from the other thread to where it belongs.

I don't get why people moan about normal mode and 15% buff.

The point is proving that you don't need insane gear to clear ICC. Where in that <----- sentence it says they are proving you can do hardmode without the buff?

I think it's an insane achievement to be able to clear ICC in blues. Realise that odds are haste and crit are either sacrificed for stats or the other way around, you can't have both on ilevel 200 blues.

[ardoRic]

I think it's an insane achievement to be able to clear ICC in blues. Realise that odds are haste and crit are either sacrificed for stats or the other way around, you can't have both on ilevel 200 blues.

Indeed. To give you the example of my shaman: I have two sets for resto in which one is haste heave and the other is mp5 heavy. Since I didn't raid as resto yet, I don't know if I'll run OOM on my haste set, so I keep the other one just in case. It's practically impossible to get a decent balance between the two.

On my elemental gear in order to reach the hit cap, I have practically 0 haste (from gear) and my crit is only around 23%, iirc.

Blue gear doesn't indeed let you balance your stats much. But we manage

[Duulis]

Indeed. To give you the example of my shaman: I have two sets for resto in which one is haste heave and the other is mp5 heavy. Since I didn't raid as resto yet, I don't know if I'll run OOM on my haste set, so I keep the other one just in case. It's practically impossible to get a decent balance between the two.

On my elemental gear in order to reach the hit cap, I have practically 0 haste (from gear) and my crit is only around 23%, iirc.

Blue gear doesn't indeed let you balance your stats much. But we manage

Go with the haste set. You don't need that much mp5 as resto shammy. I have 99mp5 while casting unbuffed and I do just fine.

[malkara]

Go with the haste set. You don't need that much mp5 as resto shammy. I have 99mp5 while casting unbuffed and I do just fine.

And you have.. how much intellect on your gear ?

[ardoRic]

Go with the haste set. You don't need that much mp5 as resto shammy. I have 99mp5 while casting unbuffed and I do just fine.

That's my thinking too. However, with lessened mana pool, Replenishment isn't as powerful. If I ever need to go resto, we'll see how it goes.

And you have.. how much intellect on your gear ?

I know the question wasn't to me, but unbuffed I have 16k mana. Buffed it gets to 19k.

I have no mp5 on my elemental gear and I do just fine with mana (unless I have to noobishly ankh [stupid Mistress]), which kind of reassures me a bit about using the haste set for resto.

[Terragh]

Copy-paste from the other thread to where it belongs.

I don't get why people moan about normal mode and 15% buff.

The point is proving that you don't need insane gear to clear ICC. Where in that <----- sentence it says they are proving you can do hardmode without the buff?

I think it's an insane achievement to be able to clear ICC in blues. Realise that odds are haste and crit are either sacrificed for stats or the other way around, you can't have both on ilevel 200 blues.

Clear ICC? They killed Marrowgar. MARROWGAR. That is hardly the pinnacle of difficulty. He's a weekly boss, for christ's sake. Considering the raid then proceeded to slam their face into Deathwhisper several times and got their shit wrecked (all while being perfectly aware of the strategy), I VERY much doubt they will defeat Saurfang. I doubted it when the project was seeded, and I doubt it now. All this project is going to do is die, and be a cheap funeral.

[prince0gotham]

Clear ICC? They killed Marrowgar. MARROWGAR. That is hardly the pinnacle of difficulty. He's a weekly boss, for christ's sake. Considering the raid then proceeded to slam their face into Deathwhisper several times and got their shit wrecked (all while being perfectly aware of the strategy), I VERY much doubt they will defeat Saurfang. I doubted it when the project was seeded, and I doubt it now. All this project is going to do is die, and be a cheap funeral.

Btw didn't they kill the second and 3rd boss too?

[ardoRic]

Btw didn't they kill the second and 3rd boss too?

Nope. Not yet. Maybe on Sunday I'll report that we did. Wait and see.

[Terragh]

Btw didn't they kill the second and 3rd boss too?

Nope. They got smacked the fuck down by Deathwhisper.

And Lootship is called Lootship for a reason.

[prince0gotham]

Nope. They got smacked the fuck down by Deathwhisper.

And Lootship is called Lootship for a reason.

You were born on a piedestal weren't you.

[Terragh]

You were born on a piedestal weren't you.

Are you implying that Airship is anything other than a loot pinata.

[ardoRic]

Nope. They got smacked the fuck down by Deathwhisper.

And Lootship is called Lootship for a reason.

I call getting "smacked the fuck down" my guild's first pull on the LK. We were maybe "smacked the fuck down" on our early LDW pulls, but we improved. We got to P2 with 1 early death. Wiping for improvement is not getting "smacked the fuck down".

If you're only impressed by a Saurfang kill. Wait and see. We'll get him in due time.

[prince0gotham]

Are you implying that Airship is anything other than a loot pinata.

Not when there are more people that killed LKHM than people that downed Marrowgar with gear less than 3.5k without the buff.

[Duskmourne]

Bravo ladies and gents. I'm rooting for you.

[Terragh]

Not when there are more people that killed LKHM than people that downed Marrowgar with gear less than 3.5k without the buff.

Being rare does not make you special. It simply means that there are less than you.

[prince0gotham]

Being rare does not make you special. It simply means that there are less than you.

So much for the 'It's just Marrowgar' argument too.

[BloodVengeance]

all of you complaining that this doesnt mean much must be those pugs that sadly cant get past marrowgar so your mad that someone with more skill than you was able to down him. or your just mad cause you find the fight challenging, or your just a fatman sitting in your sofa for a chair raging at everything because you hate the world.