Any ret paladins tired of not being able to cc?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Here's my story once again..

Retpaladin and i can't find a way to kill good healers, yes it's supposed to be hard and maybe unlikely but ret paladins can't kill any healer if the healer has a basic idea of his/her class.

Priests, painsupression during stun/trinket during stun and u got 1 of them ready at each stun.
Priests powerword shield doesnt allow paladins judgement of the wise to regen mana so we end up being manaburned and turned useless and our
divine plea gets disspelled. not to mention disspelling bubble.
GG balance.

Druids, Ret paladins damage simply cant outdo the healing the druid does and the druid doesnt go OOM.
during hammer of justice if the druid doesnt have any hots up barkskin takes care of that.
cyclone spam while we got avenging wrath up and we're useless aswell.

Shamans, All the rooting/slowing they do with ghost wolf is just way to powerfull, if you say hand of freedom you dont know wth ur talking about. (purge)
Shamans got so much passive regen from totems and magic shields is too much for a paladins damage. note that shammys is the easiest class for
me personally to kill due to the fact that they have almost no "o shit" buttons.

Holypaladins, Yeah no fucking way to kill them. ive played holy myself and it's very tough to kill one without having a 15sec silence/lockout.


my suggestion is to bring back the glyph that made Exorsism silence/counterspell.

what's your suggestion?


P.S all theese setups are for EQUAL geared players.
Resilience made sure that retripaladins are useless in arena.

[FireBorne]

Silence/interupt=CC ???

[Everafter]

Rets are not one-man armies capable of killing just anyone (not now).
We're a support dps, we bring hands, blessings, sacred shield, emergency instant FoL, survivability and moderate burst.
Edit: Forgot about Repentance and HoJ somehow.

Edit#2: I decided I need to expand my point.
As a Ret in arena, you're supporting. You follow the target your partner calls, a partner which ideally should have a MS and handful of interrupts. Don't even bother doing 2v2 as Retribution. Unless you're in handicapped BG, you'll won't go past 1,5k rating with Furious, slightly higher in Relentless.
Of course I could go and pick there a few Rets than can reach high ratings, but you get the picture.

[jenseits]

Rets are not one-man armies capable of killing just anyone (not now).
We're a support dps, we bring hands, blessings, sacred shield, emergency instant FoL, survivability and moderate burst.
Edit: Forgot about Repentance and HoJ somehow.

Edit#2: I decided I need to expand my point.
As a Ret in arena, you're supporting. You follow the target your partner calls, a partner which ideally should have a MS and handful of interrupts. Don't even bother doing 2v2 as Retribution. Unless you're in handicapped BG, you'll won't go past 1,5k rating with Furious, slightly higher in Relentless.
Of course I could go and pick there a few Rets than can reach high ratings, but you get the picture.

So are you in support of the idea of just simply being there to buff your partner so he can do all the things that need to be done to win a match or are you saying it's stupid how you're simply there to buff your partner to do all the things that need to be done to win a match?

I, for one, HATE that i can't put out the offense needed to turn the tide of a match or make a difference other than cleanse and a blessing. THAT is not the way i view ret at all and from what i can tell blizz doesn't either (granted they've done squat to change that as of yet but atleast they said they don't like the support role). How is it fair that ret is the support spec for DPS but prot and holy are fully capable and equipped to do what they need to do?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

So are you in support of the idea of just simply being there to buff your partner so he can do all the things that need to be done to win a match or are you saying it's stupid how you're simply there to buff your partner to do all the things that need to be done to win a match?

I, for one, HATE that i can't put out the offense needed to turn the tide of a match or make a difference other than cleanse and a blessing. THAT is not the way i view ret at all and from what i can tell blizz doesn't either (granted they've done squat to change that as of yet but atleast they said they don't like the support role). How is it fair that ret is the support spec for DPS but prot and holy are fully capable and equipped to do what they need to do?

excactly.
and if you compare a frost mage vs a ret paladin in arena u can see how many abilities are alike but how many more mages have

Paladin | Mage
repentance 5 sec 1 min cd | Polymorph 10sec 0 sec CD
Hammer 6sec stun 1min cd | Deep Freeze, what is it? 20-30sec cd?
Bubble 2min cd on anything. | ice block 3 min cd usable 2 times.
"insert slowing ability here" | any of the frost spells.
"insert ms effect here" | 20% MS effect on frostbolts.
"insert silence/counterspell" | counterspell 15sec CD or something.
"Insert gapcloser/getaway" | Blink.
2 healing abilities | "insert he.." o wait, evocate.
Avenging wrath. | look below.
"insert purge spell here | SPELLSTEAL
Cleanse | "Insert defensive disspell here"





All the abilities a paladin have can be countered and over run by mages, im not
saying that's unfair but id rather have more offensive than defensive abilities..

[Tèmpést]

excactly.
and if you compare a frost mage vs a ret paladin in arena u can see how many abilities are alike but how many more mages have

Paladin | Mage
repentance 5 sec 1 min cd | Polymorph 10sec 0 sec CD
Hammer 6sec stun 1min cd | Deep Freeze, what is it? 20-30sec cd?
Bubble 2min cd on anything. | ice block 3 min cd usable 2 times.
"insert slowing ability here" | any of the frost spells.
"insert ms effect here" | 20% MS effect on frostbolts.
"insert silence/counterspell" | counterspell 15sec CD or something.
"Insert gapcloser/getaway" | Blink.
2 healing abilities | "insert he.." o wait, evocate.
Avenging wrath. | look below.
"insert purge spell here | SPELLSTEAL
Cleanse | "Insert defensive disspell here"





All the abilities a paladin have can be countered and over run by mages, im not
saying that's unfair but id rather have more offensive than defensive abilities..

If you're a Blood Elf Paladin, you have access to Arcane Torrent (2 second AoE silence with a 2 min cooldown). A Mage should have Decurse somewhere on their bars, Icy Veins which can act as an offensive cooldown, and if you're Draenei Mage, a heal of time ability. Judgement of Justice somewhat counts as a slowing ability, it just won't drop the target's speed below 100% though. Mages also have Invisibility to allow resets and roots.

[rubberbands]

Priests powerword shield doesnt allow paladins judgement of the wise to regen mana so we end up being manaburned and turned useless and our
divine plea gets disspelled. not to mention disspelling bubble.
GG balance.

Why are you unable to burn down a ~7K at best bubble and then judge?
And are you seriously complaining of being mana burnt as ret? If a priest is mana burning you, and you are complaining about it, both of you are seriously doing something wrong
(unless you were doing some ret heals, then fair enough)

If you're a Blood Elf Paladin, you have access to Arcane Torrent (2 second AoE silence with a 2 min cooldown).

I would disagree with bringing in racials - You get your torrent whether you're a pally or not.

[Merlinsback]

So are you in support of the idea of just simply being there to buff your partner so he can do all the things that need to be done to win a match or are you saying it's stupid how you're simply there to buff your partner to do all the things that need to be done to win a match?

I, for one, HATE that i can't put out the offense needed to turn the tide of a match or make a difference other than cleanse and a blessing. THAT is not the way i view ret at all and from what i can tell blizz doesn't either (granted they've done squat to change that as of yet but atleast they said they don't like the support role). How is it fair that ret is the support spec for DPS but prot and holy are fully capable and equipped to do what they need to do?

I hate not being to burst down a target in my holy spec! That's complete bs... I should be able to do all these support things, cleanse, bubble, stun, sacred shield, hof, judgement of the just, etc. and be able to push out 5k dps single target as well!

Simply, if you don't like your role, then roll another class!

And to the OP, complaining about ghost wolf? That's not a class issue, that's a l2p issue.

[Everafter]

At the post above me - precisely. I do agree, it would be nice to find a place for ret outside of very limited choice of comps (especially in 2s - I love 2s), and that's why they get interrupt, and probably more burst with their angel-gargoyle.
But we're still in WotLK, where hybrids have hard time in PvP. Paladin is one that is cursed the most imo, since Holy is widely considered OP, Ret.... Well, also considered OP, but a little underpowered at the moment, and oh my god tanks shouldn't be allowed to pvp :/ Too easy to be op with top-end PvE gear.

[Praier]

I hate not being to burst down a target in my holy spec! That's complete bs... I should be able to do all these support things, cleanse, bubble, stun, sacred shield, hof, judgement of the just, etc. and be able to push out 5k dps single target as well!

Simply, if you don't like your role, then roll another class!

And to the OP, complaining about ghost wolf? That's not a class issue, that's a l2p issue.

This, this, and more this...

[Tferr]

Paladins are excellent tanks, healers and dps. They have probably the widest array of buffs for a party. They have by far the best class for soloing. They are one of the best pvp classes. They have one of the most powerful abilities in wow (bubble), they have a stun on a relatively short CD. A ranged incapacitation effect. A buff that makes them immune to movement impairing effects and even stuns if talented!
Paladins are, despite the community not wanting to accept it, the class that is best at being amazing at many things.

And you are whining about not having a spammable CC? How do you think, for example, a warrior has it? A warrior lacks any kind of CC in the meaning of 'it'll stand over there and not move'.

Oh! But hey! Let's give paladins some CC! Or wait, let's not! Instead, let's give every ability to every class so that there will be a total balance! And let's remove character models and racials and have everyone be grey mobs of goo so that noone will have any kind of advantage!

You are stupid.

[bobodopalus]

cataclysm we get an interupt and possibly mroe things so its all good then

[jobdone]

Dont resto shamans have the worst cc in the game?

Hex - 1.5 sec cast. 45 sec cd

[Koben]

And let's remove character models and racials and have everyone be grey mobs of goo so that noone will have any kind of advantage!

But paladins should be the greyest and blobbiest of all the classes...

[Imhullu]

Belfs have arcane torrent, there ya go.

[Smithsonian]

I remember when CC meant 'crowd CONTROL' not "zomg this thing won't move for 60 seconds". A hamstring, slow, etc. is a completely viable form of cc when it means you can get a 50 yard spread on them.

OT: I believe it was stated that Pallies will be getting a non-stop interrupt come the expansion so your woes will be cured soon enough...is this a "support the upcoming change" poll?

[Lark]

CC stands for "Crowd Control"

it does not stand for "magic button" or "spellcaster go POO" or "Crazy Cannon".

It allows you to control crowds. One person is not a crowd. Therefore, this thread is dumb.

[Smithsonian]

CC stands for "Crowd Control"

it does not stand for "magic button" or "spellcaster go POO" or "Crazy Cannon".

It allows you to control crowds. One person is not a crowd. Therefore, this thread is dumb.

I believe the 'crowd' portion is meant to originally mean "lessen the amount of enemies the tank/group have to deal with" So, by pulling threat frost shock/earthbind kiting you'd be CCing a target.

[xfloggingkylex]

I believe the 'crowd' portion is meant to originally mean "lessen the amount of enemies the tank/group have to deal with" So, by pulling threat frost shock/earthbind kiting you'd be CCing a target.

Exactly, removing 1 person from a 5 mob pull pretty much controls that crowd... take a significant amount of damage out of the equation.

Of course for wrath kids, CC is a PVP only term.

[Gish]

Paladin | Mage
repentance 5 sec 1 min cd | Polymorph 10sec 0 sec CD
Hammer 6sec stun 1min cd | Deep Freeze, what is it? 20-30sec cd?
Bubble 2min cd on anything. | ice block 3 min cd usable 2 times.
"insert slowing ability here" | any of the frost spells.
"insert ms effect here" | 20% MS effect on frostbolts.
"insert silence/counterspell" | counterspell 15sec CD or something.
"Insert gapcloser/getaway" | Blink.
2 healing abilities | "insert he.." o wait, evocate.
Avenging wrath. | look below.
"insert purge spell here | SPELLSTEAL
Cleanse | "Insert defensive disspell here"

What are you trying to prove? For 1 WHY in the hell are you comparing a MAGE to a paladin? It makes sense for mages to be able to control fights more because they can take alot less punishment then lets say a paladin.

And if you were to compare class with a paladin it would have to be a Paladin to a Druid, as they are both hybrids, both capable of filling every role, and as your a ret paladin it's only fair to compare a Feral druid.

Paladin | Feral Druid
repentance 5 sec 1 min cd | Cyclone 6 sec 1.5sec cast
Hammer 6sec stun 1min cd | Maim 10 sec CD
Bubble 2min cd on anything. | Survival Instincts + Frenzied Regen 3Min CD isn't a definate life saver
"insert slowing ability here" | Infected wounds.
"insert ms effect here" | None
"insert silence/counterspell" | Maim 10 sec CD
"Insert gapcloser/getaway" | Shift + Sprint
2 healing abilities | Lots of healing Spells in caster form
Avenging wrath. | Savage Roar
"insert purge spell here | None
Cleanse | Abolish poison?

And this only proves every class is different with different utility, if you don't like your classes utility, don't play that class. No class should be able to do everything and no class can.