The reason there are so many bad low level rogues

[sicness]

I recall reading a blue post stating that they'll be adjusting ambush to be capable of using non-dagger weapons, but obviously normalized so they don't use the entire top end damage like they do with daggers. Once they do this I agree they should give rogues a starting weapon of a sword/axe with a dagger offhand.

Honestly though I wouldn't contribute this so much to bad players. All it really takes it reading the tooltips when you get new abilities to find out which would be more preferred. Granted nothing in sinister strike says specifically that it benefits more from slow weapons, but common sense should tell you that 'An instant strike that causes X damage in addition to your normal weapon damage' would be better with a higher top end damage weapon.

[Deleted]

A bit off topic, but the leveling style of the rogue does not encourage one to the pvp style of play at all.. especially the combat style of leveling. Other classes realizes that it is bad someone is hitting you, or that you have to heal yourself when you are low on health. Rogues instead have it something like: damage > survivability, no stealth > stealth quickens the down time. I know this is very simplified, but that was how I had it when I made my first character (which was a rogue) 5 years ago.

[Laadeeda]

I heard sweeping generalizations are always correct.

Or, new players are new, let them be or help them out. Stop qqing.

My rogue uses 2xBoA daggers, and she rocks face. Why? Reading comprehension.

[Shatteredstar]

another newsflash: Cataclysm, AKA the "leveling" expac (in my mind, what with so much happening to the old world). Lots of classes are having 1-60 completely redone so that it makes more sense, and helps the player to know what they should be using as far as spec, and weapons / gearing go, right from the get go. We will most likely get news within the month of ALL the changes that are happening to leveling. I would assume they would start rogues off with swords in cata, seeing as they get duel wield right away now.

I doubt they will rogues as OP said are iconic for using daggers. Not to mention there is nothing inherantly bad with leveling using daggers and combat spec, by the same token however nothing tells a rogue player to go into combat naturally anymore then it tells them to go into assassination or sub.

As next post under yours also said, reading and reviewing abilities is important too and once again puts the issue firmly with the player, not with the abilities or weapons given.

Taking note of one's damage as they level is also highly subjective. Bob: Gets a new weapon upgrade every chance he gets, be it a mace, dagger, sword, etc. Bob always sees more damage it seems like. This is due to more damage on weapon and more stats normally.

If you start discussing heirloom weapons then that is the PLAYER'S fault again for not considering the abilities of the class and weapons that will most effectively use said weapons, not the fault of blizzard for starting the char with daggers that WORK JUST FINE for the levels that the weapon will be used in (as an upgrade will happen in what, 2-4 levels if not sooner if a green drops magically?)

[Murdamook]

If you are combat and you level slow you are bad.

A. You kill things with 2 SS and an Evisc. If you have the BOA items you kill things in 1.5 SS and no evisc. If you're killing things this quickly and you still think you need to waste your time stealthing up to a target to CS or Garrote because god knows with swords you can't ambush(before one of you tards says "what about ambush") then you are terrible. As leveling combat stealthing is useless as you kill things as quick or quicker than anything else in the game and in all honestly sneaking up on something so you can stun it before you kill it in 2 gcds is retarded.

B. Why the fuck do you care about low level rogues doing bad dps. QQ SFK took me 15 minutes instead of 10. Cry more seriously. If you are going to complain about it just drop group take the leaver CD and waste your time doing that rather than posting a dedicated thread on MMOchamp. In all honesty bad rogues won't make it very long in raids since other than DPS there is very few reasons to bring them.

[crabmousse]

I'm sorry?
Are you trying to state that rogues are hard to level, or takes a while to level?

Last time i checked rogues are up there at the top when it comes to leveling speed, sharing the spot (out of the new lol_im_a_tank_or_healer_leveling_in_randoms) with BM hunters and affliction locks...

And dont blame it on the fact that rogues start with 2 daggers and get SS as their first attack, thats just pahetic.
It is the same as saying that all mages are going to level as frost since the first abillity they have on their bar is frostbolt...

EDIT::
I forgot to add that a big part of leveling ANY class is learning how it works, making mistakes and learning from those mistakes.
If blizzard wass to make rogues start with a 2.6 speed sword/mage/whatever they'd be screwing Ass_specc and Sub_specc over since those two speccs require the use of daggers!
- Basicly you're starting with the weapons that 66% of the rogue speccs use

thats not what he was saying at all, he was saying it's retarded to give rogues daggers and then tell them to sinister strike, because then little rogues grow up thinking thats what they should be doing.

[Shatteredstar]

thats not what he was saying at all, he was saying it's retarded to give rogues daggers and then tell them to sinister strike, because then little rogues grow up thinking thats what they should be doing.

As the rogue levels they should also be learning and experimenting with other weapons and abilities too. Daggers allow them to actually use all of the abilities they get instead of only using a set amount.

Bliz WANTS the rogues to experiment using ambush, backstab, and those other things and not just be 100% run around ss spam. The idea is for the player to try stuff out, by limiting them to swords at the start when they get backstab fairly early after stealth they wouldn't be able to use it, thus would never learn position requisite attacks that rogues are known for too even if its 'lawl bad dps'

[DemoBytom]

In Cata every rogue will start with different weapon sets. If I remember correctly dwarves had some axe in MH, night elves had a sword..
So yeah - the starting equipment will be different..
Not that it matters so much. If you can get BoA gear - you should know how to at least start playing (or know where to look for help). If you don't have BoA - you'd change gear very quickly..

[Icpie]

The problem:

A: Rogues starting with daggers, and daggers being called the most iconic rogue weapon.
B: Sinister strike being the first attack a rogue gets, which they are taught to spam. And being further encouraged to spec combat for levelling.

They just don't go well together! Like, at all. Rogues should either start with a slow sword in the mainhand for proper Sinister Strikes, or given a new level 1 abilty that benefits from daggers more. All these rogues doing awful dps spamming sinister strike with some lame as 1.40 speed dagger in the mainhand exist because they aren't taught any better.

And you, who bought 2x boa daggers and levelled as combat, maybe you did do fine, but you could have done MUCH better if you got the 2.60 speed boa mace. If you want to use daggers be Sub and use ambush to 1-shot mobs and go muti at 50.

I hope in Cata they fix low level rogues so there won't be so many awful ones. Cheers.

Edit: I'm not saying rogues are hard to level, I'm just sick of seeing other rogues (even level 80 ones) who are still using SS with daggers. I'm saying rogues are taught wrong and most of the players suck!

When I skimmed over your name, I thought it was BongoBongo from Zelda >.>

Anywho, they should make a little class trainer quest that actually gives items with a yellow tooltip for beginners that says something like, "something witty, for sinister striking!"

[Rukh]

I basically agree with the OP: the reason that many rogues do bad DPS is they don't know any better. They don't know any better because Blizzard has these weird obscure mechancis reasons that specific weapons do massively better dps, and if you're not off reading webpages about it, you wouldn't know.

Personally, I think they should just make rogue dps a little more straightforward in terms of better weapons are better dps, but that's just me. Make sinister strike normalized by speed for instance, and poof, problem-be-gone.

Save the funky mechanics for further into leveling when people have more of a handle on "Some skills work weird and are better when you gear certain ways".

[Sahand]

I'm sorry?
Are you trying to state that rogues are hard to level, or takes a while to level?

Last time i checked rogues are up there at the top when it comes to leveling speed, sharing the spot (out of the new lol_im_a_tank_or_healer_leveling_in_randoms) with BM hunters and affliction locks...

And dont blame it on the fact that rogues start with 2 daggers and get SS as their first attack, thats just pahetic.
It is the same as saying that all mages are going to level as frost since the first abillity they have on their bar is frostbolt...

EDIT::
I forgot to add that a big part of leveling ANY class is learning how it works, making mistakes and learning from those mistakes.
If blizzard wass to make rogues start with a 2.6 speed sword/mage/whatever they'd be screwing Ass_specc and Sub_specc over since those two speccs require the use of daggers!
- Basicly you're starting with the weapons that 66% of the rogue speccs use

I'm pretty sure Rogues are one of the 3 classes who don't have any passive abilities to heal with during combat (Rogues/Mages/Hunters) as Warriors have talents which allow them to and warlocks have healthstones. Rogue leveling between 45-55 is depressing. Since leveling my Rogue I've leveled a Mage to 80 (which was insanely easy since I could conjure food and had a lot of survivability with frost) and a Druid (where I could just step out of cat form, barkskin, and Rejuv/Regrowth.

Mages start with fireball, not frostbolt. They wouldnt be 'screwing' assas/sub spec because NOBODY goes into either of those specs even if they're forced to use daggers, it's just plain silly. Only time you see an Assas Rogue leveling is when they're 61+ and are able to spec into HfB. You clearly havent thought anything you said through. His hypothesis isn't right, but your counter argument is just as bad, if not worse.

[deyndra]

Yet again stupid thread is stupid, kktybb

[Zka]

All classes have similar problems.
The game should be more helpful in teaching people to play.
Also, people should read the effin tooltips. And use google.

[Marilina]

so youre saying that weaponspeed for lvling is going to affect you on such a drastic level that it becomes unplayable?