1. #1

    DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    I've recently decided that I want to find the "best" spec for my DK. I'm currently 53/18 frost/unholy. My gear is decent as i haven't been able to get into decent Icc groups because of my gear score and dps output. What is the best spec for me to be, I'm more than willing to respec. I'll hopefully be in Icc starting this week so my gear will get better soon. Thanks in advance for the help.

    Nastyr @ Boulderfist

  2. #2

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    If memory serves, Unholy is the dps king right now for DKs.

    Try picking up a two-handed weapon and going http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...PEqE,HpF,11623
    ((this is the highest output spec for a non-proc 2hander while 'poorly' geared.))

    Looking over the ElitistJerk thread about Unholy dps can also help you. http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-u...ish_right_now/

    EDIT: You have the T9 bonus, and will most likely pick up a non-proc 2 hander, so try http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...RrO0,HpF,11623 instead of what I linked before-- you are right on the cusp between the 'gear level' required to use this spec, and being too well geared to use the one further up in my post, according to Elitist jerks.

  3. #3

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    Unholy is no longer the "King". There is no real or true king, between unholy and frost. Blood isn't as good, though, that's the general consensus.

    I would advice you to pick the specialization that you have the best gear for and most skill in. If you are horrible at watching procs, please do not go Frost. The better you are at watching procs and knowing your proper proc checklist+rotation, the better Frost is. Unholy is also quite good if you know what you're doing, but again, it all comes down to gear choice. I would probably make my decision based on strength of weapons and some other variables that you can easily ascertain from EJ or other sources, such as simcraft.

  4. #4

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    frost does more dps than unholy, unless you get SM

  5. #5
    High Overlord antitux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Phoenix, AZ

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    In the gear you have on, you should easilly be able to push 6k+, either as frost or unholy.

    That's more than enough to do ICC runs.

    Least, that's my .02.

    I would say figure out a way to drop some of your hit. you're over by like.. 200 or so.

  6. #6

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    really depends on your gear and how you wanna do your dmg, you could prob even drop wandering plague for more crit or put those talents into imp IT

  7. #7

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    Here's my opinion on things.

    Frost has more AoE and more burst damage than Unholy. Most importantly that AoE damage is burst damage, which makes Frost a far more effective spec to use on fights where you end up with adds and general things with lower health. (Read: Heroics.)

    Unholy has less burst but a heavier sustained DPS output. It takes a while to get rolling in the fight, but once you have a rotation set up and aren't required to switch targets too much you can just smoothly glide into big damage over a long period of time. So it's best for long fights against targets with large health pools such as raid bosses with few adds.

    Here's what I personally use for my DK for unholy DPS: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...i,HUp-3O,12166

    I like the 2 "leftover" points in Morbidity since I think 10% more DC damage isn't too bad a deal for those two points. Otherwise I'd consider popping them into Butchery, as that smooths out RP gen a lot. Although Subversion is NEVER a bad option.

  8. #8

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    I'd say Frost is a tad better than Unholy now on DPS, but the difference is not that big.
    Frost got exciting rotations though.

  9. #9

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    holy sheet but draenei dk's look funny!

    As to keeping on topic:

    I would think that if you're humping ICC25 hardmodes then you wouldn't be here asking these types of questions, so otherwise yeah just follow the guides others have spent a fair amount of time researching for our benefit.

  10. #10

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    I find it very fight dependent to be honest. Today on LK25 I found frost more useful due to the improved burst on the val'kyr, also factor in the fact that you'll bring IIT to the raid.

    My rule is, if you've got a shammy with windfury totem down go unholy, if not i'll go frost. My single target is equal, but I find my aoe on unholy better against type.

    As has been said on countless threads on this very subject, they're both good, but go for the playstyle you enjoy more, simple as.

  11. #11

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    There are three main questions that pretty much answer the question for you:
    1) Are willing to learn to watch the procs?
    2) Do you want Dual Wield or 2-Hand?
    3) Are your 1-Handers within 1-2 tiers of your 2H?

    If 1 is no and/or you want to use 2H weapons Unholy is for you. If 3 is false Unholy is probably better till you get better 1H weapons.

    After that it depends on your content which has the higher potential damage output.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tr
    i was like yeah, and then noticed this thread sucked* :

    i was like yeah, and then noticed your post was not constructive in any way.
    Kumduh's ban crits you for 7 days!

  12. #12
    High Overlord antitux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Phoenix, AZ

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    I'm in a strict 10-man guild. We don't run 25-mans, so this is only from a 10-man perspective.

    I run with both a Frost spec, and an unholy spec.

    I use exclusively frost for LK, Gunship, Saurfang (we have melee kill one of the adds), Putricide and Dreamwalker.

    It doesn't really matter which spec I use on BQL, Rotface, Festergut, Blood Princes, or Marrowgar.

    The only fights I always use unholy for Sindragosa, so I don't kill myself from the debuff, and Deathwhisper, as I'm always exclusively burning her, and I find it much easier to control my dps as it gets down to around 3%, and then kill the last round of adds and let the ranged finish off the mana shield.

    Being as we don't have any dps casters in our raids, other than the rare occasion when our resto shaman goes elemental, switching between unholy and frost is pretty much a matter of preference for me. Just remember that you generate a lot more threat with a standard frost build than you do the unholy/blood reapingless build that you'd run with.

    Again, it's totally down to preference. Personally, I'd say keep one of each around and just get a feel for both. As I stated above, you should be able to push at least 6k in the gear you're wearing.

    Three truths I've learned from raiding:
    1. Frost definitely has more burst than unholy. It's great for fast burns (mobs under 500k hp).
    2. Unholy still completely dominates when it comes to aoe. Don't let people fool you. Unless you get a lucky string of KM+Rime procs on a short fight, your AOE damage will always be better with unholy by a large margin.
    3. They both come out about dead even (within the margin of error) when it comes to single target fights.

  13. #13

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    Depends on your tastes. Most of the extremely geared DKs on my server are unholy though.

  14. #14
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Under a rock

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    Gear and skill being equal, both specs will do the same damage +/- 3 to 5%. Each spec has niche fights that are better than the other.

    Try them both. See which one you enjoy the most. Play that one.

  15. #15

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    as the only DK in our setupt atm, i play both specs, as i enjoy frost alot more, and it does more dps (me playing) than as unholy.
    tho unholy gives a spread 13% dmg witch is awesome for thrash, and bosses like deathwisper putricide dreamwalker and sindragosa.
    its not a big difference in the 2 specs, obliterate scourge is the hardest hitting, with a runedump and blood strike. however frost gives a change into the booring rotation with rime and killing machine procs. alot more fun imo.

  16. #16

    Re: DK DPS Frost or Unholy

    Unholy is easier and just as competitive as Frost is. Frost probably pulls the highest theoretical DPS but unholy, especially if your unholy sub-frost does better on movement. Normally you choose the one to bring the best buffs to the table or if the buffs aren't required go with the spec that does better on the particular fights your guild has the most trouble with.

    If you're just pugging, it matters less there's no way to forsee which spec you'll need.

    But if I were you, personally I'd save up money and buy my second talent spec, and use both specs. I don't do it on my own DK since I need to keep a tank spec in case I need to fill in for the ranged tank or the actual tank in my guild, but I'd kill for a third spec to be able to switch between unholy and frost depending on the fight. I'm currently frost but I want to shoot myself everytime we get to Sindragosa.

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