Rogue Cataclysm Talent Preview

[KeyserSoze]

I'm sure it's been said before in this thread, but if not, I'll say it.

Right now Combat feels very unrefined and unfinished for straight PvE purposes. Assuming fight mechanics don't require rogues to do any kind of off-tanking in Cataclysm and the rogue's purpose in each fight remains constant -- i.e. do as much damage as you can -- I count 7 talent points that are "wasted" while filling out the tree down to Killing Spree. Without knowing what the content will demand, the best use for said talent points I can manage is (in no order of importance):

1/2 Improved Recuperate (using Recuperate means less-than-maximum damage output)
2/2 Endurance (more Stamina never hurts, I guess, and maybe increasing time on target)
2/2 Improved Sprint (perhaps increasing time on target in specific fights)
2/2 Improved Kick (marginal utility increase at best)

Being that this preview comes prior to Beta (not to mention release), I'm hoping that combat will be streamlined a bit more to make the tree feel less clunky for PvE. Barring that, Assassination is looking pretty tasty (despite the initial roadblock in Tier 2).

[mercutiouk]

I'm sure it's been said before in this thread, but if not, I'll say it.

Right now Combat feels very unrefined and unfinished for straight PvE purposes. Assuming fight mechanics don't require rogues to do any kind of off-tanking in Cataclysm and the rogue's purpose in each fight remains constant -- i.e. do as much damage as you can -- I count 7 talent points that are "wasted" while filling out the tree down to Killing Spree. Without knowing what the content will demand, the best use for said talent points I can manage is (in no order of importance):

1/2 Improved Recuperate (using Recuperate means less-than-maximum damage output)
2/2 Endurance (more Stamina never hurts, I guess, and maybe increasing time on target)
2/2 Improved Sprint (perhaps increasing time on target in specific fights)
2/2 Improved Kick (marginal utility increase at best)

Being that this preview comes prior to Beta (not to mention release), I'm hoping that combat will be streamlined a bit more to make the tree feel less clunky for PvE. Barring that, Assassination is looking pretty tasty (despite the initial roadblock in Tier 2).

Get the forking memo!

Not all talent points = damage upgrades = the entire point.



To at least pretend to be helpful:

To all the people complaining about how many "wasted" points they have to spend to reach dps talents, you've completely, utterly, and entirely missed the entire point of the reworking of talent trees in cataclysm. Pretend that all of a sudden, you log in tomorrow and you get a number of free talent points that cannot be spent on dps talents. This number varies from 5 to 7 (roughly) depending on which spec you like to play. Now, yes, those points are not going to get you more dps, but on the same hand, your dps didn't go down, so you don't need more. Those points, however, do let you get all kinds of cool stuff that you otherwise would never ever have because you feel constrained to run with the cookie-cutter spec that "does the most damage". I don't know about you, but having imp sprint in my pve combat build is the best thing I've heard in a long time. There are so many sweet talents that hardly anyone takes for precisely these reasons. The reworking of the trees is cataclysm is to accomplish exactly this, not to let you pick 76 talents that all improve your dps by roughly 1% each. They want the cookie cutter builds to say "pick all of these talents and then spend the last 5-7 points wherever you want. Good choices are A, B, C, D, E, or F". In case you didn't realize it, that's exactly how these trees are shaping up.

Sums it up nicely.

Now i'll give you a break as you may have still been editing when all that was posted. You may also have missed many of the blizzard posts about "not wanting all talents to be about damage and adding some fun stuff".

Anyone from this point forward who complains about "clunky builds" will suffer severe (keyboard warrior) leg breakage.

Editted swearies as it's a front page story.

[KeyserSoze]

Get the forking memo!

Not all talent points = damage upgrades = the entire point.

...

Now i'll give you a break as you may have still been editing when all that was posted. You may also have missed many of the blizzard posts about "not wanting all talents to be about damage and adding some fun stuff".

Yeah, I've read what Blizzard intend for talents and I certainly don't expect each and every talent point to give a quantifiable increase in damage. That being said, however, the points I mentioned don't really add anything fun to the rogue experience as it exists currently.

The PvE content in Cataclysm may very well change how rogues are expected to perform and, thus, how rogues approach talent builds. I think this is rather unlikely, though, as there are 3 very distinct roles in PvE and I don't expect rogues to be using any resources on anything but damage overall. Maybe Blizzard will design some encounters that require attention paid to something outside the 3 roles. If that happens, I guess I can shut it and go eat my hat.


EDIT: Well, bollocks. I was editing my post just after you edited yours. Yeah, I remember reading that Blizzard wants some "wiggle room" in talent builds and I think it's a great idea. But given current and past PvE content, the talents which stand in the way of getting to the bottom of the Combat tree are very lackluster.

Again, I'll admit that many variables in the situation are not set in stone, namely Cataclysm encounter design and mechanics and the talent trees themselves. And I, for one, am hopeful that whatever makes it to launch will be a fantastic product and be lots of fun. I was just pointing out what I feel to be room for improvement.

[lobbe]

why are people complaining :O sub looks viable and cool, assassination has finally got a real 51 pt talent, and combat has a cool second from last talent restless blades ftw =) as long as my rogue is ont top of damage meters i dont care what happens thats fun for me :P

also mages, you try and run from an assination rogue now *evil cackle*

[archiel]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=ZbAkHSebceE_qt.9dw.rogue

Just makin Combat builds... ^ is PVE



Combat PVP Pwn?
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=ZbVhzsNgwt-98.9dw.rogue

Your built sucks donkey...

Anyways, there's some nice leveling talents in there, but for pure dps, i dont know, i'm not overwhelmed.

[Nuronv]

Not all talent points = damage upgrades = the entire point.

Thank you , I think this should be the headline of all these talent posts

[Deleted]

Just to note. Remorseless Attacks and Deadly Momentum might not proc on a bossfight, but they will proc on a boss' adds. Allowing to mow through them faster and get back on the boss faster.

It will also proc on levelcap. Just because your XP bar doesn't move doesn't mean there's no XP coming out of that mob. Everything that's white (or even blue?) and up still technically yields XP as far as these procs are concerned. I may be wrong but that's how these things have been explained to me in the past.

[Thinie]

The combat tree is f***d up because they removed the weapon specializations. I'll admit CQC is no "fun" due to being a flat crit increase, but HnS is totally fun .. at least to me.

Now after removing our "boring" weapon specs they added something so awesome instead, i could cry out of joy: 50% more armor from leather and cloth(!!!) items! Now THATS fun. Awesomesauce!















meh -.-'

[Coldkil]

i think the new trees are really exciting.

love assasination^^ (really good also for pve imho)

[Deleted]

The combat tree is f***d up because they removed the weapon specializations. I'll admit CQC is no "fun" due to being a flat crit increase, but HnS is totally fun .. at least to me.

Now after removing our "boring" weapon specs they added something so awesome instead, i could cry out of joy: 50% more armor from leather and cloth(!!!) items! Now THATS fun. Awesomesauce!

meh -.-'

I do not like the combat tree at all it is even more boring than the current one...
We were spamming Sinister Strike in Vanilla. We were spamming Sinister Strike in BC. We are spamming Sinister Strike in WotLK.
And we will spam Sinister Strike in Cata ...

However I must admit I like the preview Assassination tree, I just hope Vandetta will not get nerfed to the ground one week after release because of PVP QQ...

[xnickybx]

Yeah, 'cause that's clearly the purpose of the aoe component of killing spree: to separate the good rogues from the noobs. :

What if it was single-target only and didn't teleport you to potentially dangerous places eh?

Of course you would lose all the great qualities of its current form like it being a huge dps increase when used in conjunction with BF SnD and hyperspeed accelerators and any other haste increase you have..

I filled in the blank for you since you obviously weren't smart enough to finish it. And honestly, if you are dying while using it, that's a learn to play issue bro, not a killing spree issue.

I've only died once while using it because I stupidly forgot to tricks at the start of the boss fight, used KS with all my haste buffs, pulled aggro and died.

More on topic: Has anyone made a sub pve spec? Holy shit, talk about bloated. I had one point to spend on utility in the form of one point in camouflage. At least give us some points to put into cheat death or filthy tricks. It has cookie cutter spec written all over it. Then again, id be happy if sub was at least viable for pve, I'll deal with the bloat to have shadowstep.

[amduscia]

Also, the Expose Armor talent seems out of place in Assassination because poison damage seems to be a focus of the tree so it already has a way to bypass armor. Sub and Combat are both heavy users of todays ArPen and with sub currently as bloated as it is and combat lacking in armor penetration it seems like it belongs in Combat.

quoted from blizz forums

[glougloute]

I filled in the blank for you since you obviously weren't smart enough to finish it. And honestly, if you are dying while using it, that's a learn to play issue bro, not a killing spree issue.

Learn to read, I didn't say it was a bad dps talent. I said the aoe part of the spell is clunky and that there is no good reason for it not to be single target.

And I don't spend my time dying while using it, thank you. It's just ridiculous that the possibility even exists.

[frostmourne1989]

change much more of rogue
need a talent caculator

[Kiana12]

nice post

[Gravenimage]

Vendetta is going to be awesome