Rogue Cata Mutilate Spec

[3allz]

This is something i've knocked up really quickly.

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=k86tGXfwa_eL3.9dw.rogue

I had 3/4 points to spare at the end. As you can see, ive put them in deadly momentum and vigor (could go into fleet footed instead). Anyone else got some ideas?

[Phantazm]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=3WC59AK5M5bwN.9dw.rogue

mine's based a little more on the idea that raids will require more utility, and i'm also banking on the idea that we'll be using backstab once the target gets really low on health as a result of "murderous intent"

[sabrelime]

If you can get away with only a 40% chance to refresh SnD this would probably be the best spec http://www.wowtal.com/#k=3WC5QiN7OLuiI0.9dw.rogue at this point in time.*

If haste is still going to be really good I would go with this spec http://www.wowtal.com/#k=3WC5QLAJOLRF2e.9dw.rogue, you could take one point out of cut to the chase and put it in the lightening reflexes

If mutilate and backstab damage are going to scale better(especially the fact we may backstab in our rotation on low health bosses). I would use this spec. http://www.wowtal.com/#k=3WC5QiNj1SYH2.9dw.rogue

It seems like either way you slice it we finally have the option to not use 5/5 cut to the chase and have somewhere else to actually put the points.

*This is banking on the fact that meele haste will now recover our energy faster and we get to have 5/5 relentless strikes again. Honestly you could probably bounce points around in cut to the chase to find what works, you probably wouldn't need 5/5 either way.

It seems like the talent trees I made keep bugging out. The links are never the same as what I actually put.

[Gnometerry]

I want to start by saying, i don't claim to know everything, and this is my first attempt at actually creating a build that to me looks useful, goes along with what i do in raids, up until now i just used cookie cutter builds and rotations, so i wanted to take a crack it it myself, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism would be appreciated, elitist assholes can just go away.

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fMebhexoVMohuqzV0xVZxMc

i should also note i do not pvp.

[sabrelime]

If your looking for a more cookie cutter spec this would be it http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0eMhegoV0oIuAuV0xzZx0c

I realized that turn the tables may serve more purpose again so it may be included in best dps builds.
I still think this would be the best absolute dps build http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0eMh...IuMuV0xV0hZx0M(bouncing points from opportunity and impv slice and dice)

One safer spec choice http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0eMhegoV0oIuVdV0xV0hZx
The other safe spec choice http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0eMhegoV0oIuVuV0xmZx0c
The best of these two would be determined by mutilate and backstab scaling vs haste scaling.

[Deleted]

If your looking for a more cookie cutter spec this would be it http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0eMhegoV0oIuAuV0xzZx0c

I realized that turn the tables may serve more purpose again so it may be included in best dps builds.
I still think this would be the best absolute dps build http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0eMh...IuMuV0xV0hZx0M(bouncing points from opportunity and impv slice and dice)

Looks kinda promising to me, But why is everybody planning their spec already, its still alpha.

( Doesn't Sub looks promising to you guys? Shadowstep <3 and also the bleed thingies? )

[sabrelime]

Blizzard will probably end up making all the specs viable. I would probably run mutilate and sub, because I hate combat. I just saw this and decided to make the best specs out of what we have now, it is still way to early to know what's best for sure. The venomous wounds isn't even implemented correctly yet to know how much damage it will do extra.

The mutilate tree still kinda gets Hunger for blood I think vendetta only has a 1 min cd so it's up half the time and backstabing may be interesting considering we would be able to use the glyph of backstab to keep rupture up toward the ends of fights.

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fhxZV0xzZtbczGxzfxR0esVu Sub spec with all sub damage talents, the last point is sort of a wash I just put it in aggression. I assume energized recuperation is going to be useless for pve but for sub it may be useful at some point.

[Wintrymoon]

I personal made: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fMe0hexoiMsMuAzV0xVbu
This spec dips into blade furry, which I believe is quite nice as you'll be able to do cleave damage. Expose Armor+Backstab is added into the rotation as to refund 20 energy when the mob is below 35% health.

[Xythez]

I personal made: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fMe0hexoiMsMuAzV0xVbu
This spec dips into blade furry, which I believe is quite nice as you'll be able to do cleave damage. Expose Armor+Backstab is added into the rotation as to refund 20 energy when the mob is below 35% health.

25 energy each finisher+30% mutilate dmg > 10% haste,blade flurry.

relentless strikes is too imba to not put AT LEAST 2/5 or 3/5. And if backstab makes a comeback in pve, and it will be used when boss has less then 35% indeed, then im pretty sure oportunity 3/3 is a must for muti and backstab dmg.

also lol why 3 points in expose armour when it doesnt stack with sunder armour and not 3/3 in Focused Attacks. Also why not 3/3 and just 2/3 in Murderous intent, just so u can put 3/3 in turn the tables? the crit is just for muti/backstab, 2% each point , im pretty sure 10 energy from backstab is much better than 2% crit on backstab =)) . So many mistakes it hurts

[Grindfreak]

( Doesn't Sub looks promising to you guys? Shadowstep <3 and also the bleed thingies? )

Personally I'm loving how sub is looking atm.

[Illunis]

im hoping combat will stll be good for raiding, theres all this rage about how daggers should be the main rogue weapon but i really love running around slashing with my swords and axes atm :/

[Xythez]

im hoping combat will stll be good for raiding, theres all this rage about how daggers should be the main rogue weapon but i really love running around slashing with my swords and axes atm :/

yea well..maybe more will want to play sword if we could actualy get some good looking swords (hi talon of azshara). I dont think there is a single good looking 1hand sword in this expansion. The ones in ulduar being worst and looking like toys.

[Cathaenia]

I'd imagine talents looking something like this (Providing they somehow stay the same until release):

Assassination: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0eMh...V0xZx0c:TfMVmc

Combat: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fhe00...u0czreo:hu0Vmc

Subtlety: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fhxZV...xR0esVu:dfAmVc

[sabrelime]

I'd imagine talents looking something like this (Providing they somehow stay the same until release):

Assassination: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0eMh...V0xZx0c:TfMVmc

Combat: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fhe00...u0czreo:hu0Vmc

Subtlety: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fhxZV...xR0esVu:dfAmVc

As mutilate the impv expose armor would be a waste especially if your sacrificing cut to the chase. Turn the tables also will have a wildy variability on usefulness depending on our crit. If your focusing on backstab you really should have aggression and then get into lightning speed, then you can sacrifice cut to the chase that way. I have a feeling that the extra haste will allow for enough envenoms to keep SnD up.

[Armond]

Sub has its own thread with a gigantic wall of text. Just sayin'.

For starters, I'll suggest this build.

You can free up a point by dropping to 2/5 Cut to the Chase (I personally am uncomfortable going lower than 3/5 without Improved Slice and Dice, though). You could also move points from Combat to Subtlety for Dagger Specialization and Preparation, but I'm not sure that's worth the loss of hit and offhand damage (although Cold Blood and Overkill are both pretty cool). Energetic Recovery could theoretically be useful, depending on how much energy Recuperate costs and how many tics it has, but we don't know that yet (and I doubt it'd be useful without going 3/3, and you won't get that without dropping more things in Assassination).

I took Blackjack and Dirty Tricks because CC is cool. You could go for Remorseless Attacks for soloing and Improved Ambush for big numbers at the start of the fight, but I doubt it'll make a big difference.

You could also go for Blade Flurry with 3/5 Cut to the Chase... but you're giving up 30% Mutilate/Backstab damage and Relentless Strikes. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

I actually hope Turn the Tables is removed - I'm not fond of relying on my tank's RNG (not even my own!) for my DPS, just like I'm not fond of Hot Streak, and that would make it possible to fill out Precision and put a point in Aggression or Vigor.

Hemorrhage is there because being able to take debuffs for the raid is a good thing. If you run with a feral druid or arms warrior or other rogue all the time, though, you just gained three talent points (hint: put them in Combat, Improved Expose Armor, or maybe Vigor).

Dirty Tricks is there because CC is good. Theoretically you could put those points in Improved Ambush to explode things at the top of the fight and rely on Tricks to not pull agro, but I kind of like CCing things and I'm stubborn.

Improved Expose Armor has its uses, guys. If you're in a 10-man guild and don't have a warrior, Improved Expose Armor makes it not a huge pain to keep up the armor debuff.

Good players should take Fleet Footed over Quick Recovery. Being able to prevent damage entirely is better than making it easier to heal damage. (This is assuming puddles are more common than auras, I guess, but whatever.)

New Master Poisoner makes me sad, unless they're changing Earth and Moon, Curse of Elements, and Ebon Plague to only be 8% and I didn't notice.

I'm looking at a priority system something like this:

If Hemorrhage will fall off next GCD, refresh it. (Only if you're on Mangle duty.)
If you have at least one combo point:
-If Expose Armor will fall off next GCD, refresh it. (Only if you're on Expose duty.)
-If Slice and Dice will fall off next GCD, refresh it. (lol wuts dis)
-If Recuperate will fall off next GCD, refresh it. (Only if Energetic Recovery would make this a net energy gain and worth the damage-less GCD.)
-If Rupture will fall off next GCD, refresh it.
If Tricks of the Trade or Cold Blood are up, use them.
If you have at least four combo points (five if the target is below 35% HP), Envenom.
If your target is below 35% HP, Backstab.
If none of the above are true, Mutilate.

Certainly simpler than Subtlety's priority system, if nothing else...

[sabrelime]

Sub has its own thread with a gigantic wall of text. Just sayin'.

For starters, I'll suggest this build.

You can free up a point by dropping to 2/5 Cut to the Chase (I personally am uncomfortable going lower than 3/5 without Improved Slice and Dice, though). You could also move points from Combat to Subtlety for Dagger Specialization and Preparation, but I'm not sure that's worth the loss of hit and offhand damage (although Cold Blood and Overkill are both pretty cool). Energetic Recovery could theoretically be useful, depending on how much energy Recuperate costs and how many tics it has, but we don't know that yet (and I doubt it'd be useful without going 3/3, and you won't get that without dropping more things in Assassination).

I took Blackjack and Dirty Tricks because CC is cool. You could go for Remorseless Attacks for soloing and Improved Ambush for big numbers at the start of the fight, but I doubt it'll make a big difference.

You could also go for Blade Flurry with 3/5 Cut to the Chase... but you're giving up 30% Mutilate/Backstab damage and Relentless Strikes. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

I actually hope Turn the Tables is removed - I'm not fond of relying on my tank's RNG (not even my own!) for my DPS, just like I'm not fond of Hot Streak, and that would make it possible to fill out Precision and put a point in Aggression or Vigor.

Hemorrhage is there because being able to take debuffs for the raid is a good thing. If you run with a feral druid or arms warrior or other rogue all the time, though, you just gained three talent points (hint: put them in Combat, Improved Expose Armor, or maybe Vigor).

Dirty Tricks is there because CC is good. Theoretically you could put those points in Improved Ambush to explode things at the top of the fight and rely on Tricks to not pull agro, but I kind of like CCing things and I'm stubborn.

Improved Expose Armor has its uses, guys. If you're in a 10-man guild and don't have a warrior, Improved Expose Armor makes it not a huge pain to keep up the armor debuff.

Good players should take Fleet Footed over Quick Recovery. Being able to prevent damage entirely is better than making it easier to heal damage. (This is assuming puddles are more common than auras, I guess, but whatever.)

New Master Poisoner makes me sad, unless they're changing Earth and Moon, Curse of Elements, and Ebon Plague to only be 8% and I didn't notice.

I'm looking at a priority system something like this:

If Hemorrhage will fall off next GCD, refresh it. (Only if you're on Mangle duty.)
If you have at least one combo point:
-If Expose Armor will fall off next GCD, refresh it. (Only if you're on Expose duty.)
-If Slice and Dice will fall off next GCD, refresh it. (lol wuts dis)
-If Recuperate will fall off next GCD, refresh it. (Only if Energetic Recovery would make this a net energy gain and worth the damage-less GCD.)
-If Rupture will fall off next GCD, refresh it.
If Tricks of the Trade or Cold Blood are up, use them.
If you have at least four combo points (five if the target is below 35% HP), Envenom.
If your target is below 35% HP, Backstab.
If none of the above are true, Mutilate.

Certainly simpler than Subtlety's priority system, if nothing else...

Huh why in the world would you pick up hemmorage as a mutilate spec?? If you want hemorrhage for the raid you should be sub, this kind of priority system would be practically a raid dps loss because of the lack of hardly ever mutilateing or backstabing.

[Armond]

Huh why in the world would you pick up hemmorage as a mutilate spec?? If you want hemorrhage for the raid you should be sub, this kind of priority system would be practically a raid dps loss because of the lack of hardly ever mutilateing or backstabing.

One hemorrhage every fifteen seconds means you hardly ever use your other skills? Besides, who says you have to take it? I specifically say if someone else can bring it you can put the points from Hemorrhage and Dirty Tricks somewhere else. Taking Hemorrhage as Mutilate means your raid gets both the 8% magic damage debuff and the 30% bleed damage debuff, not to mention buffing your own rupture damage. If you're in a 25-man raid you might not need both on one person, but not everyone raids 25s.

[Sahand]

i get stuck here

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0e

blizz say they're trying to make assassination the poison build so why would we use evisc as our finisher when we have envenom

[Varuni]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=3WC59R5xTDkVg.9dw.rogue would be my assassination spec. Imp expose armor and relentless strikes mean we can keep it up for nothing. Blackjack is in there as CC is coming back, so it will help, more so early on as everyone is learning dungeons/raids.

[Armond]

i get stuck here

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0e

blizz say they're trying to make assassination the poison build so why would we use evisc as our finisher when we have envenom

That's why Blackjack exists. Remember, this will be Cataclysm, not Wrath - CC will actually be worth something.

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=3WC59R5xTDkVg.9dw.rogue would be my assassination spec. Imp expose armor and relentless strikes mean we can keep it up for nothing. Blackjack is in there as CC is coming back, so it will help, more so early on as everyone is learning dungeons/raids.

I can't help but think that point in Vigor would be better off in Seal Fate. This isn't Combat, where there's so much haste and energy regeneration that there's a risk you'll hit the cap. Turn the Tables also looks like it's 6% crit to Mutilate and Backstab as long as there's a tank. Granted, we won't be facing the inflated gear of Wrath, but I really hope our tanks will still be doing their dodging thing at least once every eight seconds. (Although, really, it's a dumb talent and should be removed so we can take both Improved Expose Armor and Hemorrhage.)