Stat priority for a disc priest?

[Kelesti]

Why would I waste my time actually healing people when there's 4-5 other raid members to do that?
Mitigating damage is what a discipline priest is brought for.
It's your top priority to.
Shield the raid, throw out PoM, Penance the tank when needed.

Why would you waste your time? It's their time you're wasting. I've said it before, I'll say it again:
If you're mass shielding, because "that's what you do" then how are you helping for the things that shields are actually good for? Discipline has such an effective and unique role that people don't take advantage of, simply because they don't want to be "a healer" anymore.

There's those "situational" moments where youll have to precast prayer of healing at times, but other than that, its not much.

Those "situational" encounters are all of ICC. Infact, the only time outside of lolInfest management that is useful for mass shielding: Festergut, phase 3, despite the fact the tank's getting hit hard the entire raid will be eating a burst. Weakened Soul doesn't let you cover debuffs, splash damage, and it's not even effective at sustaining people in aura fights.

2 (now 3 because of the buff) ticks of an aura. That's it. But if they're hit by anything? Gone early. Do you come back and support? Nope. You're too busy "mitigating damage" somewhere else down the line. I don't know about you, but if a tank says "i'm going to tank this one for 6 seconds, then this one for 6 seconds, anything after that has to be handled by everyone else" you'd kick that tank for being useless. Yet, that's what Bubble Bots do when it comes to healing, and people let them! The standard is so low that terrible people are allowed to get by, and encouraged to justify this terrible ideology as superior.

Im saying haste is just about as useless for disc as getting more mana regen is in terms of mitigating raid wide damage.

Mitigating en masse is done via healing. The only difference is yours is front-loaded, and unsustainable. The second anyone actually realises it, haste suddenly isn't "useless".

[harky]

People don't just allow it, shield spam is openly encouraged at this point, which is sad. There are more fights where it works than you stated, but not much. It does in fact work on all Aura based fights + LK... so... Sindragosa, H/P3-Putricide, BQ and LK in ICC. Any others? Well, Anub P3 and Twin Valks if you count those.

I think the problem is people's perception of mitigation. I think it stems from tanks, where mitigation costs nothing, but heals cost something. So mitigation there is superior because players take less damage. The issue with shields is that players do not take less damage and that mitigation is not free. The problem Disc really has is that not enough fights are good for spamming PW:S and PW:S's 'no-overhealing' does not make up for it's pitiful scaling. Any other healer who can manage <40% over-healing will beat a Disc Priest who is shield spamming. The problem with that is Blizzard can't increase their healing numbers because too many Disc fans think they're already strong, when in fact they've needed a buff since ToGC10/ToC25 exposed the lack of throughput.

Anyway, Disc has four spells with higher throughput than PW:S and two of them have cast times longer than 1.5. Though if you really are content just spamming PW:S there isn't much I can say. SP > Crit > Spirit on gear once you have 152 haste. At least Cata is looking to change that at the very least by introducing Heal as Disc's new go-to spell.

[vazar_da_priest]

Have alteast a 30k mana pool (buffed) for icc...i have around 26k mana unbuffed and i never oom
then its just SP>haste
other stats are basically worthless

And if u think you're low on crit, 30% holy is enough

[Kelesti]

People don't just allow it, shield spam is openly encouraged at this point, which is sad. There are more fights where it works than you stated, but not much. It does in fact work on all Aura based fights + LK... so... Sindragosa, H/P3-Putricide, BQ and LK in ICC. Any others? Well, Anub P3 and Twin Valks if you count those.

Well, yes, it "works". Works exceptionally well for all of Anub-Phase 3. But the point I was making is, sure, it "works" to delay (not counter) the aura damage, each and every single one of those fights has something else that a Shield would be stronger to counter (which of course, can't happen when Weakened Soul's already on them). Tag-teaming for Backlash, buying more time for Putricide's Plague, hell I've listed Lana'thel so many times... The point I'm still making is that sure shields might "look/be" effective. But is that the most effective way to be using them? No.

They "work" but it's still a waste of a healer spot, no matter how people want to encourage it.

And yes, I agree, forcing Discipline's absorbs down a notch, introducing Heal and saying "Hey guess what, you're still a healer. Don't like it? Respec/Reroll" will be good for the game.

[Llani]

and am i the only one who sometimes refuses to wear a piece of gear when it is probably better than what is currently equipped because it looks like crap?

This is why you have a sexy set, clearly!

White Wedding Dress + Priest Tier 5 Shoulders + Some Green Item Quality White Shoes + Aurastone Hammer

For running around the city. I swear I am contemplating moving to an RP server just to liven up my WoW experience!

[harky]

Well, yes, it "works". Works exceptionally well for all of Anub-Phase 3. But the point I was making is, sure, it "works" to delay (not counter) the aura damage, each and every single one of those fights has something else that a Shield would be stronger to counter (which of course, can't happen when Weakened Soul's already on them). Tag-teaming for Backlash, buying more time for Putricide's Plague, hell I've listed Lana'thel so many times... The point I'm still making is that sure shields might "look/be" effective. But is that the most effective way to be using them? No.

They "work" but it's still a waste of a healer spot, no matter how people want to encourage it.

To be honest, the only reason it's a waste is due to throughput problems. If shields absorbed about 25% more than they do, I wouldn't have any issue with it. The only real problem is that the shields are too small, so throughput is too low.

Think of PW:S instead of as a spell that absorbs X and is done doing it's job and instead as 15 second HoT. Then compare to Renew and therein lies the problem. Holy's Renew would heal 16k+ even in mediocre gear over those 15 seconds, while even in the best gear possible you're looking at ~13k max for PW:S. In the same level of gear Renew would be up nearing 19k healed. If that was 16k from PW:S instead, there'd really be no problem. It would encourage Disc use even in light healer strategies as well, currently they're completely pitiful at it regardless of how good the player is.

[vasyl83]

To be honest, the only reason it's a waste is due to throughput problems. If shields absorbed about 25% more than they do, I wouldn't have any issue with it. The only real problem is that the shields are too small, so throughput is too low.

Think of PW:S instead of as a spell that absorbs X and is done doing it's job and instead as 15 second HoT. Then compare to Renew and therein lies the problem. Holy's Renew would heal 16k+ even in mediocre gear over those 15 seconds, while even in the best gear possible you're looking at ~13k max for PW:S. In the same level of gear Renew would be up nearing 19k healed. If that was 16k from PW:S instead, there'd really be no problem. It would encourage Disc use even in light healer strategies as well, currently they're completely pitiful at it regardless of how good the player is.

THe problem with your reasoning is that you suppose that renew ticks actually heal. If there is a shield on someone then the shield will get absorbed first preventing 1 maybe 2 ticks. Considering Weakened Soul duration, in most cases there will be a new shield up before renew has time to complete all of its ticks. Plus Glyphed PWS will also heal a little and in most cases will put a small divine aegis up (I am sitting on 50% crit raid buffed as disc so divine aegis procs alot)

Every time you have a disc bubble spamming in a raid situation HoTs become almost useless.

[_leander]

Every time you have a disc bubble spamming in a raid situation HoTs become almost useless.

I made account so I could ask because I play Priest and was confused. Could you explain more about this? Can't shield only be put on a target once every 15 sec? I think if a target takes a bunch of damage then hots tick fine. Shield doesn't protect that much so unless they barely take damage and already have full hp then why would hots be useless? Then again if you take so little damage why bother with shield? Did I miss something? I thought this was the opposite way and when a lot of hots in raids then shields not as useful because hots so much bigger.

[vasyl83]

To be honest, the only reason it's a waste is due to throughput problems. If shields absorbed about 25% more than they do, I wouldn't have any issue with it. The only real problem is that the shields are too small, so throughput is too low.

Think of PW:S instead of as a spell that absorbs X and is done doing it's job and instead as 15 second HoT. Then compare to Renew and therein lies the problem. Holy's Renew would heal 16k+ even in mediocre gear over those 15 seconds, while even in the best gear possible you're looking at ~13k max for PW:S. In the same level of gear Renew would be up nearing 19k healed. If that was 16k from PW:S instead, there'd really be no problem. It would encourage Disc use even in light healer strategies as well, currently they're completely pitiful at it regardless of how good the player is.

I made account so I could ask because I play Priest and was confused. Could you explain more about this? Can't shield only be put on a target once every 15 sec? I think if a target takes a bunch of damage then hots tick fine. Shield doesn't protect that much so unless they barely take damage and already have full hp then why would hots be useless? Then again if you take so little damage why bother with shield? Did I miss something? I thought this was the opposite way and when a lot of hots in raids then shields not as useful because hots so much bigger.

What I meant to say is that healing mechanics work as follows:
1. Absorbs are nogtiated (sacred shield, PWS, divine aegis etc)
2. Heals go through.

So if you have a shield plus divine aegis on a target the damage first must go through those before being applied to HP, after that the healing starts. So let's say someone in a raid eats a hit for 19k, that person's HP are 25k, the hit is not resisted or avoided or anything (we are only considering healing). So my shields absorb about 9k damage, that reduces the hit to 10k, 25k -10k = 15k, now healing begins, a shammie and a holy priest see the person getting low and both send direct heals his way, he is topped off in under 3 seconds, so there were almost no ticks of HoTs that had the time to apply. Maybe 1 tick. So in effective healing, 9k will go to disc priest, and 10k will be shared between shammie and holy priest with a small portion of it going to HoT ticking. The rest of hot duration is wasted since it is all overheal.

This is why you see disc as top heals on most fights like LK when there is huge amount of predictable raid damage.
Even on the other fights like Proffessor (well at least in my guild) disc is always on top since with current gear mana is a non issue and shields and divine aegises are on the whole raid most of the time.

I am 9/12 HM in ICC, I am not the best but I do have some expeirence, if people disagree well my method of calculation seems to be supported by my experience.

my armory http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...g&cn=Semiraghe

[Auraye]

Yes, shields can be reapplied every 15s.

When hots go to gross overheals, it's from misuse of hots. With a disc priest in the raid, the hots shouldn't be applied until PW:S is almost up, or when someone's already taken damage. If I just shielded someone with 50% health, if the other healers aren't struggling, I move on to shield the next person, allowing the other healers' hots to tick.

Why bother with shield? It stabilizes the players, provides a buffer, and procs Renewed Hope. Why let a raid take damage when it can be mitigated?

Instead of being so unhappy about hots going to too much overheals, other healers should consider adjusting their playstyles to spot healing instead of blanketing a raid with hots on people at full health when there's a disc priest in the raid. I adjust based on the heal group. We all should.

[tyanthunder77]

The first thing that I am going to say is that Discipline is a very versatile class and in my experience I have found that different play styles require significantly different stat configurations. That being said, you are going to see lots of different kinds of disc priests. You are going to see those that stack the hell out of haste and take advantage of low GCDs to spread PW:S as fast as possible with short cast time heals on standby to deal with heavier damage. You are going to see those that stack Spell Power which strengthens both healing and absorption spells. You will also see those who stack Crit, increasing the proc rate for DA which activates every time you hit somebody with a critical heal.

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned DA yet, as it is just about any disc priests top source of mitigation. It is activated passively by all of your healing spells (except Renew which you should not be using much anyway) and is always absorbed before your PW:S, increasing its life an perpetuating complete damage absorption. While some disc priests choose to base their effectiveness around how fast or strong their PW:S is, I choose to aim for maximum DA up time. For tank healing I cast PW:S on the active tank and then use a mix of Penance, Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and PoM to stack DA on top of the initial shield. With high enough SP and Crit and a healthy amount of haste it is possible to maintain 100% mitigation on a tank indefinitely on moderate damage fights, and for several seconds when used along with PS on heavy damage fights.

Raid healing plays a bit differently and varies drastically by fight. On a fight like Marrowgar where damage is random it is best to maintain mitigation on tanks and break of to deal with spike damage. You do this by first casting PW:S and then follow up with a Penance, GH, or multiple FHs to stack a bit of additional DA mitigation on them. If this stabilizes the target turn your attention back to the tanks, otherwise continue to heal. On fights with Damage Auras you are going to be casting PW:S as often ass possible. In 10 mans I start by casting PoM on a tank, then I start handing out PW:S to everybody, refresh PoM on every cooldown, and then I hit both groups with PoH to try and get a few DAs out. Deal with spike damage with Penance and FH, GH on heavy damage and BH situationally. In 25 mans its pretty much constant PW:S, PoM on every cooldown, and Penance/FH on spike damage.

The point I am trying to get to is because of the fact that I use something on every cooldown it is very helpful to have a large mana pool. Mine sits around 39,000 - 40,000 raid buffed and allows me to cast for a very long time before needing to pop mana return cooldowns. Stacking Int also gives me a very healthy amount of Crit. Lastly, it is very important for me to control when my PW:S breaks to maximize the effectiveness of Rapture and its cooldown, as it is my primary source of mana return.

I hope this helped!
~ Vilverin - Kargath

[Auraye]

That being said, you are going to see lots of different kinds of disc priests. You are going to see those that stack the hell out of haste and take advantage of low GCDs to spread PW:S as fast as possible with short cast time heals on standby to deal with heavier damage.

Seriously? The haste cap for GCD on PW:S spamming is only 146, attainable in wearing blues and greens. If a priest is deliberately stacking haste for more GCDs for bubble spamming, they need to learn their class.

You are going to see those that stack Spell Power which strengthens both healing and absorption spells. You will also see those who stack Crit, increasing the proc rate for DA which activates every time you hit somebody with a critical heal.

If they're stacking crit after 30% instead of more SP or haste (more haste for faster penance, POH, and FH - not GCD), they're shorting themselves on throughput, because crit suffers DR making the other stats even more valuable.

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned DA yet, as it is just about any disc priests top source of mitigation.

No, it's not. It's PW:S.

While some disc priests choose to base their effectiveness around how fast or strong their PW:S is,

PW:S is an instant cast, limited by your GCD. WTH

Do I smell a troll? lol

[Lenerien]

Ok here is my armory link. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Sargmastif

If i understand what i have read here i need to change all my + 20 int gems to + 12 SP - +10 int ones ?

[tyanthunder77]

You obviously neglected to read the second half of the sentence referring to the benefits of stacking haste which says "with short cast time heals on standby to deal with heavier damage." I am open to constructive criticism, but being a dick isn't going to help anybody. I mitigate more damage than is healed by the top restoration druids in most of the groups I am with using the strat I wrote out above.

[vasyl83]

Ok here is my armory link. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Sargmastif

If i understand what i have read here i need to change all my + 20 int gems to + 12 SP - +10 int ones ?

It all depends on your play style and raid synergy. We have a lot of shammies and druids, so there is always a manatide or an innervate available, mana pool doesn't matter much to me.

But if in your case you don't have replenishment or other means of getting mana other then 3 priest's cooldowns and you go OOM often then keep your intel gems.

Also if you followed any discussion about disc on this site or EJ, intel stacking is only needed until you get into T9 maybe T9.5 content, after that intel becomes irrelevant since you get so much of it from gear already.

[Lenerien]

well i just did the math i have 7 +20 int gems if i change to + 12SP and + 10 int i gain 84SP lose 70 INT so maybe not so bad. Just that im dual spec holy and dont have 30k mana in that spec. but lots of SP almost 3500 self buufed no flask

[_leander]

So if you have a shield plus divine aegis on a target the damage first must go through those before being applied to HP, after that the healing starts. So let's say someone in a raid eats a hit for 19k, that person's HP are 25k, the hit is not resisted or avoided or anything (we are only considering healing). So my shields absorb about 9k damage, that reduces the hit to 10k, 25k -10k = 15k, now healing begins, a shammie and a holy priest see the person getting low and both send direct heals his way, he is topped off in under 3 seconds, so there were almost no ticks of HoTs that had the time to apply. Maybe 1 tick. So in effective healing, 9k will go to disc priest, and 10k will be shared between shammie and holy priest with a small portion of it going to HoT ticking. The rest of hot duration is wasted since it is all overheal.

I can't tell if you agree or not with what I ask. With what you say here it mean that shield suck if lots of raid damage because only protect for very short time. Shield only last for a little while on fight like Sindragosa and Queen so then can't shield again until debuff is gone. Is shield so much better for 4 sec that it works on those type of fight? That seems not right to me because it only waste one or maybe two hot tick, but even then it only waste them if target is full on hp to start. Are you saying its better when first applied only? That seems wrong to me because if shield was replaced with another hot then neither hot would be wasted and player with hots would be healed for more overall. Is Divine Aegis even a lot? When I look it seem like it isn't that important, just tiny bit more shield.

I know fight like Lich is different because all damage done in one hit. Festergut sometime does that too when he exhale, but damage so low that its not that bad. What about other fight though? Many fight shield seems like crap because no one take damage anyway so lot of shield do nothing maybe one or two get use. Other fight have a lot of damage all the fight so having two hots on someone seem better because heal for lots more than absorbed. It sound like all you say is shield better because it happen before damage come, but lots of fight damage come all the time. Only Lich really have big one hit of damage to shield. Why people like smaller shield over bigger hot? Even if some of hot is wasted isn't hot bigger?

Am curious because guild I am in only wants me to shield on Lich and other fights they give me gold to be Holy and use hot. I like being Discipline because for 5 man it really easy so I wanted to know if maybe they wrong? Fight seem easier now, but mana is hard sometime, but Druid like to give me mana because I help more now. Should maybe I tell them this so I can use shield more?

[dabros]

spirit over mp5 only if you dual spec holy, mp5 is better if you are only disc

[Auraye]

Tyan: you're right, I did miss the second half of that sentence. However, you said something to the effect of lowering the GCD again later. I also stand by that it is not possible for your top mitigation to be DA, unless you're hardly using PW:S. PW:S is capable of doing FAR more mitigation per second. Stacking DA is not nearly as reliable or effective, and if you're not capitalizing on that, I'd highly suggest you put pen to paper. If you're relying on WOL to come to this conclusion, it's inaccurate. Any time your PW:S initial heal crits, the value of PW:S is reported as DA on WOL. It's wrong.

Lenerien: Yes, that would be a good idea at your current gear level, but only take the yellow slots that give +7 spellpower or more from the socket bonus. Otherwise, gem pure spellpower in the slots and forget the bonus. Since you're using ember skyflare diamond meta, you don't have to use any gems other than red to activate it, so don't worry about that.

[Zarmful]

Now you got alot of advice on gear, I will recommend Svelte UI

I hate looking at a ugly UI while playing, so I downloaded this and fitted some extra addons in like Buttonfacade, Pallapower, WIM and recount. After some config's I ended up with, ini, smooth and clean UI.

http://i45.tinypic.com/vfcvg9.png