Should I be itemized differently?ret help needed

[azraelius]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...l&cn=Azraelius

Looking through armory and wow-heroes of other paladins i've seen doing much better dps than myself on the parses I notice we are itemized differently.
I have more haste and crit than almost all the rets.52.8% and 758 haste(both un-buffed).But on the other hand I have considerably less Attack Power.
I am wearing a lot of agility gear because from what I've heard from other successful rets is that if the small loss of AP from strength gear is worth the extra crit and/or haste you gain from agi gear with AP on it.

I know the added haste crit would be much more benificial if I had tiny abom and/or shadowmourne,and many(most) of the rets ive noticed whos parses were great had tiny abom and some had shadowmourne.My group hasn't had a tiny abom drop in months and i wont be getting shards for shadowmourne until the guy in front of me finishes.

Is that trinket alone the reason I dont seem to be able to push that high?or that axe?
Should I value that AP from str items over the crit/haste from agi gear with AP?
Do you see something wrong with my spec/glyphs/gems/gear that stands out?

Help

[Todyn]

Short Answer: Yes Tiny Abom = God trinket for rets

Long Answer: plug yourself into rawr and see what you should gem and what gears to prioritize.

Why Exo and not Conc for glyphs?

[ragingsoul]

Tiny abomination will give you around 500 dps increase for sure.
Now, you can't really compare yourself with people that have shadowmourne, since that weapon alone is around 2k dps increase on single target.

If you use bloodfall, replace your neck, back, belt imo with strength items, and try to get TAiAJ. Agility items can be better, but just remember that strength is our primary stats, and gives us SP too. Also, those studies (made over EJ) most of the time use shadowmourne as a weapon and TAiaJ. crit then becomes better as a stat, because it increases the ramp time of the stacks (both trinket + shadowmourne) due to ret mechanics.

[Deleted]

Despite Abo and Skillmourne:
Your gearing strategy is somewhat wrong, the correct one is generally strength, strength, strength. Strength it is. Why? 1 Str = 2ap, + Divine Strength + BoK and the like. SoV triple (!) dips in Strength. We are hard hitters, reliant on crit, but still those hits need to be hard, so for example your RV Dot (30% of ability dmg) ticks significantly higher when you're stacking strength I believe.
You have 1,7k Strength unbuffed, whereas I'm sitting at 2,4k, and my gear is definately not on par with yours. Still, there might be something else going wrong if you're really that much behind similar geared players. Your rotation should be (4x t10)

- Undead target: Judge>DS>CS>HoW>Exo>Cons>HolyWrath
- Non-Undead: Judge>DS>CS>HoW>Cons>Exo

Definately exchange Exo-Glpyh for Consecration-Glyph. For Mana and dps-reasons.
Replace Herkuml War Token with Death's Verdict.

[Badpaladin]

- Undead target: Judge>DS>CS>HoW>Exo>Cons>HolyWrath
- Non-Undead: Judge>DS>CS>HoW>Cons>Exo

Nope, undead target rotation is the same as non-undead.

And I wouldn't set rotations that strictly. Using a CS > DS priority is often a DPS increase over DS > CS with funky amounts of haste, I'd suggest plugging your toon into RAWR and modeling some rotations to see what's best.

[Spitfyre]

You should check rawr to see whether at some point the value of crit became so low for you that strength items became more valuable than agi items with more stats. If so then this could account for your dps loss.

[Deleted]

Nope, undead target rotation is the same as non-undead.

And I wouldn't set rotations that strictly. Using a CS > DS priority is often a DPS increase over DS > CS with funky amounts of haste, I'd suggest plugging your toon into RAWR and modeling some rotations to see what's best.

Well, just because it's not on the first page of the basic ret thread on EJ? It was stated and tested on some of the later pages in that thread that using the guaranteed exo crit before cons is a dps increase, not to mention when the target is moving out of cons (prof comes to mind). What do you base your assumption on?

I might've forgotten something, but where exactly does haste has anything to do with CS and DS? The global cooldown of these abilities is locked (whereas cons/exo/holywrath is not, for these are spells). CS hits for %weapon damage and procs a seal, DS does the same while being normalized to a certain weapon speed, is that what you're referring to? But you're actually gimping your 2pT10 bonus proc chance, and DS hits just so much harder.

[Deleted]

without the 2 piece CS is above DS in the priority and even with it if you are unlucky with proccs of the 2 piece CS comes out at a higher prio i think what he is trying to say that with low haste you will have fewer hits to procc the 2 piece making CS come out on top.
allthough as soon as you got the 2 piece you should be hitting enough with just auto attaks and special attaks to make DS a higher prio than CS unless your one of those people that are realy unlucky with proccs or just bad at using DS when the CD resets

[Nillo]

1)SoV triple (!) dips in Strength.
2) You have 1,7k Strength unbuffed, whereas I'm sitting at 2,4k, and my gear is definately not on par with yours.

1) Not this shit again : No matter what EJ said there is no triple dipping whatsoever. Same with SP coming from Str - who cares? SP sux balls and all that does is increase the modifier for AP.
2) Agi gear > Str gear gz for gimping your dps by a few hundred due to wearing only str gear.

[Deleted]

1) Not this shit again : No matter what EJ said there is no triple dipping whatsoever. Same with SP coming from Str - who cares? SP sux balls and all that does is increase the modifier for crit.
2) Agi gear > Str gear gz for gimping your dps by a few hundred due to wearing only str gear.

There are still three factors being influenced by strength, no matter how weak the sp-component might be. In addition, having more strength ultimately means even more strength from percentage-modifiers.

And yeah, I'd be going for maximum dps at all costs myself, and at higher levels of gear the better itemization of leather gear might justify taking these pieces over plate ones. But since you're into enumeration I'll tell you this way:

1) I choose to not participate in a hardcore raiding guild and I run with PuG's, instead. They won't let you roll on anything but plate/str items, and there's a reason why. I don't have access to all the items because of this so your reasons for picking agi over str might not apply to some people, me included.
2) You look awful in non-plate (granted our t10 is ugly, anyways) and my eyes hurt when mouse-overing agi-gear with str-gems.

3)I bet your guild's rogues and ferals are freezing in iceold icecrown All their clothing was mindlessly given to Rets and Furys..

No seriously, gratz and everything to you, but that's not everyones cup of tea. I'd assume the OP has access to endgame gear, too, judging from his armory, so your tips might apply for him, though I think he's overdoing it agi-wise. Guess RAWR could be of more help here.

[Nillo]

1) I choose to not participate in a hardcore raiding guild and I run with PuG's, instead. They won't let you roll on anything but plate/str items, and there's a reason why. I don't have access to all the items because of this so your reasons for picking agi over str might not apply to some people, me included.
2) You look awful in non-plate (granted our t10 is ugly, anyways) and my eyes hurt when mouse-overing agi-gear with str-gems.

3)I bet your guild's rogues and ferals are freezing in iceold icecrown All their clothing was mindlessly given to Rets and Furys..

4) No seriously, gratz and everything to you, but that's not everyones cup of tea. I'd assume the OP has access to endgame gear, too, judging from his armory, so your tips might apply for him, though I think he's overdoing it agi-wise. Guess RAWR could be of more help here.

1) Fair enough
2) All visible items are plate anyway as you ought to wear 4/5 + either plate gloves or plate legs as offset piece.
3) Bracers dropped when my 10 man rogues wasn't there and everything else was like the 3rd drop of that item anyway (=> all hunters had it already or didn't bid on it)

4) No he's not overdoing it agi-wise and that's why your tips are useless.

[Deleted]

hmm alright, so you're saying the OP should L2P, is that what you're saying? Since he's already all the way down the agi-road and still underperforming..c'mon, you've already shut me down, help a fellow Rogueadin in need

On a side note, I'm kinda excited to get home from work and face the new Halion Encounter. With any luck, I'll be able to grab the dps trinket(arp, duh!), finally forget death's choice, move on and never look back. I'll tell DC that we can stay friends, but that I need some space for now. Definately not returning any calls anytime soon.

[Siène]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...l&cn=Azraelius

Looking through armory and wow-heroes of other paladins i've seen doing much better dps than myself on the parses I notice we are itemized differently.
I have more haste and crit than almost all the rets.52.8% and 758 haste(both un-buffed).But on the other hand I have considerably less Attack Power.
I am wearing a lot of agility gear because from what I've heard from other successful rets is that if the small loss of AP from strength gear is worth the extra crit and/or haste you gain from agi gear with AP on it.

I know the added haste crit would be much more benificial if I had tiny abom and/or shadowmourne,and many(most) of the rets ive noticed whos parses were great had tiny abom and some had shadowmourne.My group hasn't had a tiny abom drop in months and i wont be getting shards for shadowmourne until the guy in front of me finishes.

Is that trinket alone the reason I dont seem to be able to push that high?or that axe?
Should I value that AP from str items over the crit/haste from agi gear with AP?
Do you see something wrong with my spec/glyphs/gems/gear that stands out?

Help

u have to much crit and to less ap, take only 2 good max. 3 agi items on "small" slots like bracers, neck, cloak or rings.
u have an agi weapon it counts as ~ 1.5-2 "small" slots.
thats how im itemized...

hope u can understand what im wanna say, if your @ ~45% crit unbuffed its enough don't gear for more crit, better AP,Haste,ArP

for example http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...&cn=Si%C3%A8ne
im doing 15/16k dps on festergut and so...

[Nillo]

hmm alright, so you're saying the OP should L2P, is that what you're saying? Since he's already all the way down the agi-road and still underperforming....

What I'm saying is that the agi items are certainly not what's keeping him down - yes, but I certainly can't tell how good the OP is performing as we don't have any WoL for him might as well be the missing TaJ that is keeping him down. Even if you're wearing full agi gear the difference between agi and str gear is small.

What's certainly a dps loss for the op are the Hit/Str gems in red or colorless slots (legs,gloves => ~ 10 dps loss each) + the Crit/str gems in yellow slots with a 4 agi bonus (cloak + ring => 4dps loss each) switching all of them to str and replacing some of the crit/str gems in useful yellow slots (instead of red slots) would net a noticable dps win.

hope u can understand what im wanna say, if your @ ~45% crit unbuffed its enough don't gear for more crit, better AP,Haste,ArP

Yes pls if you want to get laughed at hard go for ArP over crit.


Well whatever if you have gear questions just L2Rawr.

[Badpaladin]

Well, just because it's not on the first page of the basic ret thread on EJ? It was stated and tested on some of the later pages in that thread that using the guaranteed exo crit before cons is a dps increase, not to mention when the target is moving out of cons (prof comes to mind). What do you base your assumption on?

No, it wasn't. If it was, I'd like to see it because I searched and found nothing of the matter. I base my assumption on the fact that 10 ticks of consecrate at my gear level does more damage than an exorcism crit, and since i'm not spell hit capped I can't rely on Exorcism to hit every time but I can rely on 9 ticks of Consecrate to hit.

I might've forgotten something, but where exactly does haste has anything to do with CS and DS? The global cooldown of these abilities is locked (whereas cons/exo/holywrath is not, for these are spells). CS hits for %weapon damage and procs a seal, DS does the same while being normalized to a certain weapon speed, is that what you're referring to? But you're actually gimping your 2pT10 bonus proc chance, and DS hits just so much harder.

More melee swings means more 40% chance to reset your DS cooldown. It's still RNG, and CS actually is right on par with DS in terms of damage done over the course of a fight. Ret's FCFS isn't a damage-per-cast priority, it's an overall DPS priority.

[Nighty]

it's kinda funny that he's getting flamed for having the exo glyph. unless theres somethirn wrong with rawr this is the better glyph for him since it gives a higher dps increase then the consecration glyph. what i found to be weird is that his char only simmed about 500 dps higher then mine although he has much better equip. 15.298 for him compared to 14.797 for my char. might be my TAiaJ since it would give hm a dps boost of over 540.

[Nillo]

1) unless theres somethirn wrong with rawr this is the better glyph for him since it gives a higher dps increase then the consecration glyph.
2) what i found to be weird is that his char only simmed about 500 dps higher then mine although he has much better equip. 15.298 for him compared to 14.797 for my char. might be my TAiaJ since it would give hm a dps boost of over 540.

1) Rawr seems to have some issues with Glyphs (especially with Cons and t10 2p) and there's absolutely no way, that Exo is better than cons.
2) Yeah most likely the missing TaJ is the biggest flaw in his gear.

[Nighty]

1) Rawr seems to have some issues with Glyphs (especially with Cons and t10 2p) and there's absolutely no way, that Exo is better than cons.
2) Yeah most likely the missing TaJ is the biggest flaw in his gear.

yea, thats what i thought about the glyphs "some issues" well i'd rather call it totally bugged

[Nillo]

yea, thats what i thought about the glyphs "some issues" well i'd rather call it totally bugged

My guess would be, that it makes a fix ECD for DivStorm, that just doesn't match with the Cons glyph (the Cons cd goes from 8 to 17 sec with the Glyph for me !_!) => t10 2p breaks the Glyph in Rawr