Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    By the looks of it, every class should've gotten a Mortal Strike effect of some sort -- except for hybrids such as Druid, Paladin and Shaman. -- I have no idea what happened here, maybe they'll add an effect such as this to another ability of the Mage? Who knows.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by hellar View Post
    shut up mages your guys are always amazing in pvp.
    classes that have no room to complain b/c they have always been good in pvp.
    Warriors
    Druids
    Mages
    Warlocks
    wow...

    first off, rogues/priests/paladins have always been good as well.

    the classes that have been hit and miss basically come down to shamans and hunters. And just because a class has 'always been good' doesn't mean anything.

    ridiculous logic.

  3. #23
    You make a thread about this? shall i make a thread about shadow embrace no longer reduces HoT? you mages have a lot to complain about i see

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by larcom View Post
    wow...

    first off, rogues/priests/paladins have always been good as well.

    the classes that have been hit and miss basically come down to shamans and hunters. And just because a class has 'always been good' doesn't mean anything.

    ridiculous logic.
    Did you completely miss TBC? Paladins were only decent in S1 due to no one having any gear, and only when paired with a warlock or warrior (and even then, lock priest was much stronger). Paladins in TBC were only viable in 5s (and in 2s with a warlock, if the paladin had pve gear, and again, Lock / Druid from S2-S4 was infinitely better), because it was one of the few brackets where they didn't receive that much pressure on them. They were by far the worst healer from S2-S4.

  5. #25
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Napelon View Post
    Yay! Now we won't be able to kill healers!! It's removed from frost tree yuppy! Even Imp. poly has been changed so we can't even touch healer.


    But yea, PW:Shield and PW:Barrier stays!!

    Blizz fails

    It is a good needed nerf for mages, healers will also be nerfed so you will do fine vs healers, especially as frost mage.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Now you might actually have to counter a spell with counterspell. What a horrible thought.

    Also, you can Spellsteal PW:Shield.
    rofl. pve hero? If a disc priest knows what he's doing, has more than 600 resil and doesn't have down syndrome; mages wont win in a blanket counterspell. The issue is vs druids where we can't cc them. Deepfreeze and counterspell was the only way to get cc more than 5 seconds. It's also an issue where classes have talents which reduce interrupt duration. It's not uncommon for counterspell to be 4 seconds on some.

    As for spellstealing PW:Shield, you've obviously never been past 1500. It costs 600 mana and isn't reliable.

    why do these threads never start as a discussion and always as someone complaining and yelling at blizzard?
    why? because people like you think they're real clever by listing the things wrong with his post instead of actually starting a discussion. Also there's the kid who thinks mages are extremely OP because some 2.7k rated mage was carrying his mate and 2v1'd the noobs team. If you've played are mage or played against a mage and had decent gear instead of welfares, people will realise that no, they're not OP and they hit stupidly low crits at present (Was hitting 4k crits on a 30k health druid with full wrathful t2 wep etc.)

    It is a good needed nerf for mages, healers will also be nerfed so you will do fine vs healers, especially as frost mage.
    Mages don't need nerfs. As stated they have a CC which hasn't changed since release, sub-par damage and most classes at present can pump insane amounts of damage into them (think skillmourne, hunters, and offensive dispels)

    As for contributing to the discussion, at the moment the trees are terrible and if they stay as they are I'll probably reroll to rogue which are looking extremely fun atm.
    Last edited by rektbrah; 2010-07-20 at 11:38 AM.

  7. #27
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by rektlol View Post
    Mages don't need nerfs. As stated they have a CC which hasn't changed since release, sub-par damage and most classes at present can pump insane amounts of damage into them (think skillmourne, hunters, and offensive dispels)

    As for contributing to the discussion, at the moment the trees are terrible and if they stay as they are I'll probably reroll to rogue which are looking extremely fun atm.
    Mages do need a nerf, Mage Armour is way too strong and needs to be reduced to 25% orr 30% and your Survivability is sky high. Not all classes are able to dispell your shields and in cataclysm other classes will be nerfed aswell, especially healers and dispells so you shouldn't worry, losing a tool vs healers is never a good thing but since blizzard doesn't want to nerf the real problem: "Mage Armour" they nerf other abilities.

    Also do not reroll a rogue, if you want to reroll something that is strong chose warlock, priest or DK. With the current talents, Unholy DK is without doubt the strongest melee class out there.

  8. #28
    I'm not sure how you can consider mage armor to be overpowered in an arena setting. Mage vs any other caster in an arena setting is fairly balanced, if not in favor of the opposing caster (aside from maybe boomkins). With LoS in an arena, a mage should never beat a shadow priest, nor a disc priest. Destro and affliction are both even match ups, and I'd even say that the affliction lock should win with LoS. Without mage armor, there would be no way a mage would even have a chance.

    Also, our survivability is different from other caster classes. Mages are not designed to tank damage, of any kind. Shadow priests, warlocks, ele shamans, etc, all have abilities that help them with direct damage onto them. Mages are built around the ability to kite melee and avoid damage. They have no real defense once someone is actually one them. This is why the Hunter vs Mage match up is so retard and in favor of the one physical class that will always have 100% damage time on the mage. If you ever actually get on a mage, as any dps class, they will die faster than any other caster.

  9. #29
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Goliethlol View Post
    I'm not sure how you can consider mage armor to be overpowered in an arena setting. Mage vs any other caster in an arena setting is fairly balanced, if not in favor of the opposing caster (aside from maybe boomkins). With LoS in an arena, a mage should never beat a shadow priest, nor a disc priest. Destro and affliction are both even match ups, and I'd even say that the affliction lock should win with LoS. Without mage armor, there would be no way a mage would even have a chance.

    Also, our survivability is different from other caster classes. Mages are not designed to tank damage, of any kind. Shadow priests, warlocks, ele shamans, etc, all have abilities that help them with direct damage onto them. Mages are built around the ability to kite melee and avoid damage. They have no real defense once someone is actually one them. This is why the Hunter vs Mage match up is so retard and in favor of the one physical class that will always have 100% damage time on the mage. If you ever actually get on a mage, as any dps class, they will die faster than any other caster.
    You get passive 50% less damage from affliction warlocks and shadow priests, all magic based CC are 50% less duration.

    All other points are valid and reasonable, but so is 30% on Mage Armour.

  10. #30
    It's not 50% less damage, it's 50% less duration on magical damage over time effects. The actual damage it does is still the same, you just have to reapply it sooner. What this does is forces the warlock / shadow priest etc to spend more globals on keeping up dots throughout a matchup. If this wasn't the case, then it would go back to TBC where a warlock could put up full dots, which would have been lethal damage, then spend the rest of the duel or w/e spamming cc and controlling the mage.

    Also, if you're a warlock, and playing vs a mage in an arena setting, with partners, you can choose to be a huge faggot with mana drain. If you mana drain a mage that has mage armor up, it reduces the channel time of mana drain, however, it will drain the same amount of mana. This means that mage armor effectively increases the effectiveness of mana drain by 100%. If warlocks choose to abuse this, you almost always force the mage to swap to ice armor to attempt to reduce this effect (assuming they are competant), and once that happens, you can then fear him for full duration, and apply dots. If they swap back to mage armor to avoid that, you simply rinse repeat.

    My point though that none of the caster vs mage match ups are skewed in favor of the mage should make it fairly clear that nerfs are not necessary.
    Last edited by Goliethlol; 2010-07-20 at 08:10 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Napelon View Post
    Yay! Now we won't be able to kill healers!! It's removed from frost tree yuppy! Even Imp. poly has been changed so we can't even touch healer.


    But yea, PW:Shield and PW:Barrier stays!!

    Blizz fails
    Cry about it mage, cry about it. Seriously you mages are becoming demigods in Cataclysm. Maybe you'll actually have to rely on your partner for something instead of soloing any healer out there! Mages complain too much, look at all that your class has that other classes lack.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by VoltaireWrites View Post
    Cry about it mage, cry about it. Seriously you mages are becoming demigods in Cataclysm. Maybe you'll actually have to rely on your partner for something instead of soloing any healer out there! Mages complain too much, look at all that your class has that other classes lack.
    If you think mages are going to be overpowered in cataclysm you may want to go back and take a look at the affliction lock changes...

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bleed View Post
    You get passive 50% less damage from affliction warlocks and shadow priests, all magic based CC are 50% less duration.

    All other points are valid and reasonable, but so is 30% on Mage Armour.

    mages are balanced around arcane armor against those classes. try having frost armor up with full dots on and see how long you last...

    shit i barely last even with mage armor up against geared dot classes.

  14. #34
    Keyboard Turner
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Ravenholdt US
    Posts
    6
    If you think that removing Improved Counterspell from a Frost Mage's toolset will increase the complexity of the Mage class, you have no absolutely no business talking about PvP balance.
    4. Blizzard wants pvp to not be ezmode for any class/spec/role and also want to put emphasis on skill instead of lolfaceroll
    Removing Improved Counterspell from a Frost Mage's toolset does the opposite of emphasizing skill and complexity.
    mages who blanket their sheep with a Imp CS
    Using the silence to prevent a sheep dispel is an example of an intelligent usage of the silence. This typically means they're good, which is the opposite of what you stated.
    shut up mages your guys are always amazing in pvp.
    classes that have no room to complain b/c they have always been good in pvp.
    Er, there are more classes that have been consistently acceptable at a minimum than classes which have spent the majority of their time sucking.
    (note for illiterate pedants: classes != specs)
    If you've played are mage or played against a mage and had decent gear instead of welfares, people will realise that no, they're not OP and they hit stupidly low crits at present (Was hitting 4k crits on a 30k health druid with full wrathful t2 wep etc.)
    Hi. Mage here. My spell power's just shy of 3000. I frostbolt crit a disc priest for 2100 in 5s yesterday. I was sad.

    The last quote is completely true - if a Frost Mage is doing any sorts of significant damage to you with a single shatter (if it even crits - it's almost literally a cointoss' probability after resilience's chance reduction), you shouldn't have popped recklessness in your PvE set. It's saddening, really - on an average resil target (~1.0-1.1k), my frostbolts will crit for about as much as the shockwave noncrits of a properly geared arena prot warrior. (don't believe me? go watch Jigs 3.)

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Glexarn View Post
    If you think that removing Improved Counterspell from a Frost Mage's toolset will increase the complexity of the Mage class, you have no absolutely no business talking about PvP balance.
    I agree that it doesn't increase the complexity of the Mage class, however it does put the emphasis on actually landing a CS during a cast, as opposed to simply blanketing it and hoping for the best, which a lot of mages do (and to be fair, it works more often than not with how fast the pace of the game currently is).

    Quote Originally Posted by Glexarn View Post
    Removing Improved Counterspell from a Frost Mage's toolset does the opposite of emphasizing skill and complexity.
    It moves the focus on actually landing interrupts, but it removes the secondary function of a silence, which in certain situations is much more valuable.

    It removes a secondary use to an ability, which by default lowers the effective skill cap, as you have less options in what can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glexarn View Post
    Using the silence to prevent a sheep dispel is an example of an intelligent usage of the silence. This typically means they're good, which is the opposite of what you stated.
    I agree. Using Deep Freeze or Imp CS to guarentee a poly on a priest who is competent enough to actually SW effectively is not "noobish" or unskilled. It is quite the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glexarn View Post
    Hi. Mage here. My spell power's just shy of 3000. I frostbolt crit a disc priest for 2100 in 5s yesterday. I was sad.

    The last quote is completely true - if a Frost Mage is doing any sorts of significant damage to you with a single shatter (if it even crits - it's almost literally a cointoss' probability after resilience's chance reduction), you shouldn't have popped recklessness in your PvE set. It's saddening, really - on an average resil target (~1.0-1.1k), my frostbolts will crit for about as much as the shockwave noncrits of a properly geared arena prot warrior. (don't believe me? go watch Jigs 3.)
    It's not quite as bad as try to suggest here. Mage damage is actually pretty good, it just seems extremely bad when compared to the damage of other casters, which are just simply out of control. Lusted Shadow Priests, Destro and Affliction Locks, and Ele Shamans, are so extremely ludicrous with their damage output it makes it seem that mages do no damage. If the mage is actually allowed to cast, the damage isn't that bad.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Goliethlol View Post
    It's not quite as bad as try to suggest here. Mage damage is actually pretty good, it just seems extremely bad when compared to the damage of other casters, which are just simply out of control. Lusted Shadow Priests, Destro and Affliction Locks, and Ele Shamans, are so extremely ludicrous with their damage output it makes it seem that mages do no damage. If the mage is actually allowed to cast, the damage isn't that bad.
    So you're saying if we're left casting, our damage isn't 'that bad'. Yeah, fine it's not that bad but every single other caster is deadly when left free casting, mages are just 'not bad'.

    I agree that it doesn't increase the complexity of the Mage class, however it does put the emphasis on actually landing a CS during a cast, as opposed to simply blanketing it and hoping for the best, which a lot of mages do (and to be fair, it works more often than not with how fast the pace of the game currently is).
    But how about those druids where we can't land a CS? I'm not talking about your 1.9k retard I'm talking about your 2.7k druid hero who doesn't cast spells or jukes like a pro. I havn't read up on the new sheeping druids in cataclysm, but if things stay the same there's really no reason to pick a mage over a warlock.

    Also do not reroll a rogue, if you want to reroll something that is strong chose warlock, priest or DK. With the current talents, Unholy DK is without doubt the strongest melee class out there.
    Was talking about which would be more fun, which atm for me seem like rogues. Though I do love the soulburn (whatever it's called) warlock idea.

    Cry about it mage, cry about it. Seriously you mages are becoming demigods in Cataclysm. Maybe you'll actually have to rely on your partner for something instead of soloing any healer out there! Mages complain too much, look at all that your class has that other classes lack.
    Shut up.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by rektlol View Post
    But how about those druids where we can't land a CS? I'm not talking about your 1.9k retard I'm talking about your 2.7k druid hero who doesn't cast spells or jukes like a pro. I havn't read up on the new sheeping druids in cataclysm, but if things stay the same there's really no reason to pick a mage over a warlock.
    They are completely different classes. Mages concentrate more on controlling the battleground/arena. A well played mage will only let someone go where the mage lets him. A warlock on the other hand can provide sufficient CC through Fears and Deathcoil and Seduce. A warlock is more about using sheer amounts of damage and well placed Fears to end a game, while a mage uses more silences or sheeps to shut down a healer to burst down a DPS, or vice versa. They are fairly even in Arena in my opinion, and certain people are better at certain classes. It's about class preference/skill.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by VoltaireWrites View Post
    They are completely different classes. Mages concentrate more on controlling the battleground/arena. A well played mage will only let someone go where the mage lets him. A warlock on the other hand can provide sufficient CC through Fears and Deathcoil and Seduce. A warlock is more about using sheer amounts of damage and well placed Fears to end a game, while a mage uses more silences or sheeps to shut down a healer to burst down a DPS, or vice versa. They are fairly even in Arena in my opinion, and certain people are better at certain classes. It's about class preference/skill.
    You realize that this thread is about the removal of our only silence effect right...

    Quote Originally Posted by rektlol View Post
    So you're saying if we're left casting, our damage isn't 'that bad'. Yeah, fine it's not that bad but every single other caster is deadly when left free casting, mages are just 'not bad'.
    That is exactly what I said with the rest of that paragraph I posted... /boggle
    Mage damage doesn't necessarily need to go up, the other casters need to be tuned down.

  19. #39
    Brewmaster juzalol's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,285
    Quote Originally Posted by Napelon View Post
    Yay! Now we won't be able to kill healers!
    Live:
    You counterspell a healing spell interrupting the cast and locking the school for 8 seconds.

    Beta:
    You counterspell a healing spell interrupting the cast and locking the school for 8 seconds.

    I really can't see the diffrence.

    And remember Cataclysm healing will focus more on Casting heals instead of Instant casts and if blizzard keeps haste under control you won't see those 0,6sec sheep casts flying around and you can actually hit the casts with counterspell.

    Yes, even resto druids will actually be casting heals in Cata instead of just rolling hots.

  20. #40
    This just in: Bad mages complaining about how their class is underpowered. More at 8.

    Mages have had an insane amount of control over almost every class. Oh boo hoo you can't CC druids to hells end, mages do quite well against everything else with very high survivability. Oh and the reason people won't take a warlock over a mage is because for one, warlocks don't have an infinite amount of CC that has no DR. Lol slowed all day, supbroimpro. Oh and since dispels are costing much more in cata, your CC won't be dispelled instantly all the time.
    /violin

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •