This isn't our horde anymore.

[Zalmanusa]

It never was your horde to begin with.
Selfish bastards...

[Rekari]

Gamon for Warchief of the Horde, screw Garrosh.

[Deleted]

blood elves, the reason why i rerolled!

I just hope there will be less of them, now that tauren can also be paladins (most popular class AFAIK, and one of the biggest reasons for belf overpopulation)

[Gyrllsbear]

-.- Seriously, did none of you play Warcraft? You are aware that this is a story? Respect the fact that the story is actually going somewhere. You're supposed to play the game, watch the fact that the horde is changing and say, "Wow, cool, there is tension in the Horde and Sylvanas is seriously having her story develope!" not, "Omg, the story is changing and I cannot leave the horde, instead I must witness the horde become what it used to be!". It's a RPG, clearly something you've forgotten.

Were you honestly expecting the Horde and Alliance to remain in the dorment state like they have for the past 5 years? The Warcraft series was constantly changing. Horde members were evolving and betraying, including Alliance members (Lord Garithos attempting to execute the Blood Elves). As soon as WoW came out the story and developement of these factions stopped dead. Finally towards the end of WotLK and in Cata the stories have started rolling again and you all throw your arms in the air and have a hissy fit?

If you want a story that doesn't change from start to finish then go play a FPS.

[zealous]

Mm I gotta ask, where is this new info about Sylvanas coming from? Just give me the context, is it the worgen starting zone? (didn't want to spoil that for myself, seemed interesting enough to experience in-game)

On-topic: Totaly agree with Gyrllsbear about that fact that people have forgotten this is an RPG, with a developing story. During Vanilla and TBC the story had a very very static feel to it, now finally they are changing that and people seem to have trouble remembering that it's not their call to demand what the plot should be. Did you get upset over every plot-twist in single player games too?

Snap out of it, it's not your government passing tax laws, it's Blizz developing the plot. Learn to enjoy it, it will benefit you if you give it a try.

[neoscorpio]

Another person who can't see a middle ground between Blackhand's old Horde and Thrall's free-love hugs 'n kisses hippie commune.

Funny thing is, the people who continually whine about Garrosh being the death of the Horde don't actually back it up with anything. What's he actually doing, exactly? Killing Cairne? That's the Grimtotem. Declaring war? Varian did that back in UC, and he's invading the Barrens and Durotar all by himself. Forcing out Vol'jin? Vol'jin throws a hissy fit and threatens treason, and instead of executing him Garrosh just lets him do his own thing in the Echo Isles... where Thrall tells Vol'jin to stop whining as he's "stronger than that". Making the Horde evil? Yeah, it's totally evil to be opposed to civilian bombing, outlaw the plague, and resist demon corruption in the Horde. lol.

The Horde's the same as it always was. If you want to be a cartoon good guy and hate the idea of the grey morality of war, by all means faction change out. The Alliance is progressing much the same though, so that might not suit you. There's always Hello Kitty online.

this guy explained pretty much everything

heres my take:

varian has already declared war, so what we need is a warchief who will give em war, not negotiate for peace with a psycho king. in the not so recent past of our nation, our pansy leader was not prepared for war and our psycho communist neighbours ended up invading us and we also have border disputes going on for the almost 63 years now

as far as the leaked info, garrosh doesnt kill cairne, the grimtotems do and infact garrosh helps retake thunderbluff which gets seized by the grimtotems, he executes a general for bombing a civilian base, he plans to keep sylvanas on a leash, he bans the use of the forsaken plague, he fortifies various horde bases, expands its navy, what more can we ask for?

king greymane wanted a war right? well sylvanas is giving him one, and what better way to expand ur army when u are undead and dont procreate? raise some more undead ofcourse. oh believe me the other faction would have done the same if they could.

as for the dragonmaws joining the horde, i think its great, you know why? i think its better to have a bunch of psychos who are capable of molesting dragons on ur side than against you, and since we are gonna fight against the black and twilight dragons, it would be pretty great to be allied with them

and if you think blood elves are getting ignored, go check out the uldum screenies, u can clearly see blood elf tents all over the place, it was revealed somewhere that they are an 'explorer's league' like faction comprising of blood elves

and ofcourse like any other leader, garrosh has his bad points too. garrosh's minuses are treating voljin like dirt, being a bit too rash and aggressive, just like varian. yes, its true, garrosh started the fight in the ulduar trailer but he was still inexperienced at that time, he was raised that way, he probably didnt know how to tie his shoelaces until we met him in nagrand, but varian as a king should have known better than being so rash, yes he went through so much trouble as a slave, so did thrall but i dont see him acting like that.

and ITS STILL BETA, so wait until the pre cataclysm event and the live release!

[Halazz]

[QUOTE=Preliatus;8388693]
Vol'jin, I feel that the exile from Orgrimmar was needed. Though it was forcefully (assumption) they needed to make room for the trusty green midgets.

Baine Bloodhoof can fill the hoove-steps (Play on Foot Steps.. Tauren lack feet) of his father, but it might take sometime. The Tauren could remain with the horde if they please, but they are tied to a life debt to the orcs.
QUOTE]

And here is where I hate the new changes. Vol'jin gets stepped on, why? Because he doesn't like Garrosh being a meathead. Trolls have been in the Horde alot long than Garrosh, they work just as hard as the Orcs and they have fewer numbers, Garrosh should have more repsect for them but he just treats them like shit.

And Baine is nothing compared to the old big bloodhoof himself, Baine has no personality whatsoever!

[dadou131988]

Garrosh is doing much more to keep his orcs in check than Thrall ever did. Yes, he wants war - surprise surprise, and welcome to the world of WARcraft. Garrosh brings something most people have been asking for a very long time now. Garrosh also has a very strict code of honor. Orcs are savage yet honorable by definition.

Cairne dies, but he was very, very old. He was bound to die sooner rather than later. His son takes over and seems like a perfectly good follow-up.

Vol'jin has some disagreements with Garrosh, but in the end admits that the horde is more than Garrosh and that Garrosh ultimately means good. Their relationship will be interesting to follow.

Sylvanas, the Lich Queen, is the really the only faction truly splintering from the horde. She shows Garrosh no respect and makes it clear she only cares for the forsaken.

But it really pours down to one simple thing: plot advancement and interesting development. The horde is in turmoil after Thrall leaves, but if you are able to emotionally detach themselves from the faction even a little bit, you will see that the situation in Cataclysm becomes quite interesting. There is plot advancement, character advancement and twists and turns everywhere: this is something the alliance lacks hugely so far.

Give it a chance, and you might actually grow to like Garrosh and his constantly improving character. Vol'jin is finally getting more identity for himself and the trolls as a whole. Baine will most likely grow much more influental than his father ever was. Sylvanas will give all those "kill everything"-types a leader to follow. And if all else fails, Thrall will still be around to fix it.

TLDR: Change is good. The horde is getting a proper story and stronger identities all around.

Best post in the thread...

[neoscorpio]

Vol'jin, I feel that the exile from Orgrimmar was needed. Though it was forcefully (assumption) they needed to make room for the trusty green midgets.

Baine Bloodhoof can fill the hoove-steps (Play on Foot Steps.. Tauren lack feet) of his father, but it might take sometime. The Tauren could remain with the horde if they please, but they are tied to a life debt to the orcs.
QUOTE]

And here is where I hate the new changes. Vol'jin gets stepped on, why? Because he doesn't like Garrosh being a meathead. Trolls have been in the Horde alot long than Garrosh, they work just as hard as the Orcs and they have fewer numbers, Garrosh should have more repsect for them but he just treats them like shit.

And Baine is nothing compared to the old big bloodhoof himself, Baine has no personality whatsoever!

wow when have u seen baine in action? the last he had some on screen time was back in WC3

[Deleted]

I love the fact there is starting to be a real noticeable difference in the Horde and the Alliance, its nice that the two factions are not just the same with different skins.

[Stormdash]

For all the whining about Thrall's vision of the Horde -- the Horde sure as hell has accomplished a lot since he restored shamanism to ascendancy and focused a bit more on the "honor" and a bit less on the "blood". I know the faction won't get lore-credit for its clean-sweep of the Lich King kill in all difficulties, but lore-wise the Horde still contributed enough to the make-up of that decisive victory that they are represented in Tirion's statue. Think about that -- lorewise, Dalaran and all who dwell there abide the premise of being a sanctuary because it's how the Lich King could best be fought, but it's still Dalaran, and it's not got a statue of orcs.

The New Horde weren't and still aren't the "bad guys" in Azeroth, anymore than post-WWII Germany is a "bad guy". There is a middle ground and that's where the Horde will settle in. I think whatever lore progression takes place with the Blood Elves will be key -- and just because it may not be happening in the starting areas doesn't mean it may not be happening in scripted NPC events, patch cinematics, etc. The Blood Elves are the only tether Sylvanas still has to her mortality are her connection with them is the only leverage the rest of the Horde has to try to reign her in. Likewise, the Blood Elves are, racially speaking, a player now in ways they weren't in BC or even in Wrath of the Lich King -- they have the Sunwell back. They have a voice that would need to be heard when it comes to any tension between the different Horde races.

[Lordwaus]

people have to remember that garrosh's leadership is completely different to Thrall's - it's survival of the fittest and a brutal code of honour written in the blood of the weak. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's brainless or ill-conceived. I see a lot of complaints about how it's two-dimensional and poorly written, but such claims are never substantiated by much evidence and reek of people actively choosing not to read into Garrosh in any great depth, because they fear what they will find (a competant, albiet aggressive, warlord).

Tempered by the wisdom of senior members of the Horde (even Saurfang, who's comments Garrosh does seem to acknowledge in the Borean Tundra conversation), Garrosh could be just as successful as Thrall. Indeed, given his willingness to take bold action, he could usher in a new age of Horde supremacy.

[Deleted]

I think the OP is mourning something that has never really gone away. You're looking at the Horde as a macro group of all the combined races who fly it's banner. But there is an obvious divide between the two differing micro bodies, deliberately seperated by name, the Horde of Kalimdor, lead by Thrall, and the Eastern Horde, lead by Sylvanas (Thrall being the Warchief over all the Horde of course).

The Horde of Kalimdor is made up of the orcs, tauren and trolls, brought together by Thrall's dream of living harmoniously by a code of honour and wisdom. The new Horde was so worn-down and vulnerable, after years of conflict and strife, that in order to survive it's rough beginnings, it made an alliance of convenience with the Forsaken, a faction which could potentially keep the Alliance largely busy, leaving an ocean between them and Kalimdor, giving Orgrimmar time to find its feet.

The Eastern Horde, made up of the Forsaken and Blood Elves, was formed through one of Sylvanas' rare sentimental attachments to the living world, her continued determination to fulfill her duties as Ranger-General of Quel'Thalas. ("Her heart is still elven." D'aww.)

In reality, the 2 groups are about as close as Roosevelt's U.S. and Mao's China under the collective banner of the Allied Forces in WW2.
I was hoping to see signs of a growing bond between the Horde as a whole in Cata (kinda been through a lot together!) but it makes sense that there is little visible activity from the elves, they've always been isolationist and now the Sunwell is restored and Arthas, Kael and Kil'Jaeden thwarted, and that Sylvanas is getting more daring.

TLDR; Just worry about what the Horde of Kalimdor are up to. Eastern Kingdoms is half a world away. ^^

[CarnatiaSpiritfield]

Yeah it was never YOUR horde, it was Blizzards Horde, to do with that they want.

[widowmaker]

Sylvanas, the Lich Queen, is the really the only faction truly splintering from the horde. She shows Garrosh no respect and makes it clear she only cares for the forsaken.

Geez, stop it with the Lich Queen already. She is loyal to horde, and we WILL NOT see any betrayal from her. She has little love for Garrosh cuz she sees him as a moronic thug. But that doesn't mean she's going to backstab him. Neither she is planning to eradicate all life on Azeroth. All she is trying to achieve is tho get rid of human filth in northern Eastern Kingdoms as they threaten Forsaken since very begining of WoW. Of course - tight grip on northern EK is a goal for the Horde as whole, and Garrosh knows Sylvanas is irreplacable guarant of Horde domination in the region.

[Izenhart]

To everyone their own perspective.

My Horde was made by Blackhand, Doomhammer, Ner'Zhul and his servant Gul'Dan, not by Thrall and his girlfriend Jaina.

[Patrickstarr]

I want a Horde that murders Alli children for games...
And rapes nature for the Fuck of it (Cept' Tauren who fix it afterwards).
And I think that the Goblins suit the Horde. But only if they exclusively blow shit up.

[Deleted]

Geez, stop it with the Lich Queen already. She is loyal to horde, and we WILL NOT see any betrayal from her. She has little love for Garrosh cuz she sees him as a moronic thug. But that doesn't mean she's going to backstab him. Neither she is planning to eradicate all life on Azeroth. All she is trying to achieve is tho get rid of human filth in northern Eastern Kingdoms as they threaten Forsaken since very begining of WoW. Of course - tight grip on northern EK is a goal for the Horde as whole, and Garrosh knows Sylvanas is irreplacable guarant of Horde domination in the region.

She defies Garrosh's orders and the two act openly hostile against each other.

When she captures Koltira for treason, she says that she will make him loyal again for the horde - or rather for the forsaken. Again, making it clear that its where her loyalties lie.

And thats only the leaks so far, we've no idea how much more is to come. Whether Sylvanas dies or redeems herself is something to watch out for. The forsaken cannot really be removed from the horde either, so we will just have to wait and see.

[JackBauerLOL]

ITT: Delusioned Horde fanboys who think Garrosh is making the Horde evil and not just showing their true nature.

Warchief Garrosh is the best thing to happen to this game's storyline is a long time.

[Alraml]

I think the OP is mourning something that has never really gone away. You're looking at the Horde as a macro group of all the combined races who fly it's banner. But there is an obvious divide between the two differing micro bodies, deliberately seperated by name, the Horde of Kalimdor, lead by Thrall, and the Eastern Horde, lead by Sylvanas (Thrall being the Warchief over all the Horde of course).

The Horde of Kalimdor is made up of the orcs, tauren and trolls, brought together by Thrall's dream of living harmoniously by a code of honour and wisdom. The new Horde was so worn-down and vulnerable, after years of conflict and strife, that in order to survive it's rough beginnings, it made an alliance of convenience with the Forsaken, a faction which could potentially keep the Alliance largely busy, leaving an ocean between them and Kalimdor, giving Orgrimmar time to find its feet.

The Eastern Horde, made up of the Forsaken and Blood Elves, was formed through one of Sylvanas' rare sentimental attachments to the living world, her continued determination to fulfill her duties as Ranger-General of Quel'Thalas. ("Her heart is still elven." D'aww.)

In reality, the 2 groups are about as close as Roosevelt's U.S. and Mao's China under the collective banner of the Allied Forces in WW2.
I was hoping to see signs of a growing bond between the Horde as a whole in Cata (kinda been through a lot together!) but it makes sense that there is little visible activity from the elves, they've always been isolationist and now the Sunwell is restored and Arthas, Kael and Kil'Jaeden thwarted, and that Sylvanas is getting more daring.

TLDR; Just worry about what the Horde of Kalimdor are up to. Eastern Kingdoms is half a world away. ^^

It is kind of sad that the Horde are still so fragmented. The addition of Goblins won't help this problem whereas I feel Worgen will bring the Alliance closer together. My reasoning. The Night Elves have always been sort of distant from the rest of the Alliance and have decided to offer help to the Worgen. Although closed off for a few years Gilneas still has strong ties with the Eastern Kingdoms side of the Alliance and I think that they're sort of a middle-man really. They have a great respect for the Night Elves now and are more than willing to repay their debt and judging by some screenshots of Duskwood it looks like they may be attempting to repair their relationship with the other humans.

The goblins on the other hand aren't really gonna help the divide between the EK Horde and the Kalimdor Horde which is kind of sad really.

Horde characters starting off as neutral with several members of their own faction kinda sums it up though