Why was C'thun pre-nerf "Impossible"?

[Warwithin]

After reading one of the threads on here about "Hardest Bosses in WoW" or whatnot, I've been seeing many people posting that C'thun pre-nerf was impossible.

Sadly, I started playing WoW just before BC was released, and only managed to get to the mid 40s by the time BC was released; therefore, did not see any Vanilla raiding.

Anyone care to explain why a fight is being called "impossible"? That word isn't thrown around a lot on these forums, so I'm intrigued.

[Fanaion]

No. C'thun was unkillable with the current gear available pre-naxx. The DPS requirement to both kill the tentacles before they wiped the raid and actually do real damage to c'thun combined with the mana limitations of the time made it impossible.

People forget that once upon a time, replenishment was barely in the game. Hunters did not have it. Shadow priests did not have it (spriest was not a viable class at that point). Regular priests did not have it (no shadowfiend). I am also pretty sure that mages and pallies didn't have it either. Druids had innervate (but no tree form, nothing else to lessen healing burdens).

So not only did you not have enough DPS but you also did not have enough mana and you would go OOM or your healers would go OOM even if you had the DPS.

It was a mathematically impossible encounter given the game realities at that time.

That's what i found after a quick search, didn't play back then.

[Deleted]

That's what i found after a quick search, didn't play back then.

Nice post

[Thaurr]

I remember reading somewhere Nihilum killed him the night before the nerf by flasking the entire raid (which was a totally new concept back then).

Also your source isn't even "sure mages or pallies had it (replenishment)".. If you knew anything you'd know the only mana batteries you had were SPs in TBC... There was no such thing as Replenishment only damage done by the SP converted to mana for the PARTY (see party, not raid). Also just because there was no tree form didn't mean INSTA OOM. Unreliable Source you got there.

[Dragonwing]

There was also numerous bugs, such as tentacles spawning in the stomach (the tentacles that are meant to only spawn on the surface, mind you)

[Irony]

There was simply not enough dps to kill tentacles fast enough.

[vesseblah]

C'thun was not nerfed, it was fixed. Problem that made it unkillable was adds spawning in a places where they can nuke the raid freely but were not reachable for players.

Vanilla (and TBC) has long history of bosses that were so ridiculously overtuned or bugged that guilds got stuck on them for months. It wasn't because the encounters were hard, it was just incredibly retarded form of 'gating' inside the instance. Examples of this include Chromaggus, Nefarian, C'thun, and Four Horsemen.

[juzalol]

Wasn't yogg0 mathematically impossible aswell?
Even tho it was mathematically impossible he still got killed.

Id say that the prenerf C'thun would be doable now simply because the top players now are on a completely different level compared to top players in vanilla. It would take some time and the bugs would eat up some tries but still i think it would be doable.

[Kenjji]

Yogg zero was "impossible" because the dps requirements were insane, i think stars got around it by using 1 ( or 2) tanks less and have hunters kiting

[Irony]

Wasn't yogg0 mathematically impossible aswell?
Even tho it was mathematically impossible he still got killed.

Id say that the prenerf C'thun would be doable now simply because the top players now are on a completely different level compared to top players in vanilla. It would take some time and the bugs would eat up some tries but still i think it would be doable.

Skill doesn't help on an overtuned fight.

[Huggykaze]

Wasn't yogg0 mathematically impossible aswell?
Even tho it was mathematically impossible he still got killed.

Id say that the prenerf C'thun would be doable now simply because the top players now are on a completely different level compared to top players in vanilla. It would take some time and the bugs would eat up some tries but still i think it would be doable.

Is it our fault Elitist Jerks live by math laws and think they can count everything, even equation for wealth and good sex?;> Maths=/=skill and Maths=/=reality... C'thun prenerf was really unkillable, not only math-wise... Also pre-fix C'thun now would be so easy, no good players would cry for nerf because tentacles/eyes would do shit damage, green beam would jump to players in melee range only and eye lazor would be cast that has to be interrupted... long cast...

Kenjji: Stars used lots of affli warlocks^^ DoT classes in general are good for such fights.

[Sidonis]

There was also numerous bugs, such as tentacles spawning in the stomach (the tentacles that are meant to only spawn on the surface, mind you)

This, this right here is what the hotfix changed about C'thun, and then suddenly you had kills everywhere from guilds in both the U.S. and Europe, at multiple levels of gameplay from your 6 hours 6 days a week raiders down to your more average 4 hours 4-5 days a week raiders.

And to the poster stating Nihilum killed him the night before the nerf, you're incorrect. Nihilum killed him after the hotfix as well, but the major issue everyone has with this kill, is that the hotfix was applied very late on a Monday night U.S. time, which meant that the U.S. had to re-clear the entire zone after maintenance whereas Nihilum still had an instance empty of all but C'thun due to European maintenance taking place on Wednesdays. The bad timing on the application of the hotfix (later admitted by Kaplan himself) combined with months of Blue posts saying there was no bugs in the encounter, was a nutshot to a lot of guilds in the U.S. that had spent months working on a world first only to lose a fair shot at it due to a bad decision by Blizzard.

[Keosen]

People who posting in "Hardest boss" look alike thread just reproduce what they hear/read, very few of them actually seen the fight back then and even less have actually fight C'Thun.

You can easily understand that most people pretend they had fight him by calling C'Tjun hard when it was obviously bugged.
And since the last time i've checked bugged =/= hard

No boss were impossible just some of them was overtuned Viscidus, Vaelastraszedit, M'Uru, Nefarian to mention some of them.

Nevertheless C'Thun was hard, not for the mechanics only but also due to the lack of experience and all the mumbo jumbo sites/addon/guides that we have today.

[antonatsis]

the reason they couldn't kill C'thun was that the fight had numerous bugs
also as for the nihilum kill
the reason for the uproar was that nihilum killed him by exploiting with a pet
there is a pet in the game called stinky oozling or something like that.back in the days it had a debuff that every time you were summoning it was removing a duff/debuff that the tank had,so they managed to kill the boss some hours after the fix,now nihilum never admitted that they did that but unfortunately for them their main-tank/gm on the kill shot you could see the debuff/macro/pet whatever you want to call it! :P

bear in mind that they have done the same think with various more bosses like lady vashj twin eredars and hodir hard mode(they claimed that because it was impossible to kill him they had to cheat/exploit/"enter the word you like here") and Lich King heroic up till LK they never had any problems with blizzard and their cheating but on arthas they all got banned for 72 hours or something like that!

[archangelz]

the reason they couldn't kill C'thun was that the fight had numerous bugs
also as for the nihilum kill
the reason for the uproar was that nihilum killed him by exploiting with a pet
there is a pet in the game called stinky oozling or something like that.back in the days it had a debuff that every time you were summoning it was removing a duff/debuff that the tank had,so they managed to kill the boss some hours after the fix,now nihilum never admitted that they did that but unfortunately for them their main-tank/gm on the kill shot you could see the debuff/macro/pet whatever you want to call it! :P

bear in mind that they have done the same think with various more bosses like lady vashj twin eredars and hodir hard mode(they claimed that because it was impossible to kill him they had to cheat/exploit/"enter the word you like here") and Lich King heroic up till LK they never had any problems with blizzard and their cheating but on arthas they all got banned for 72 hours or something like that!

You mean disgusting oozeling?

[Kungemil]

the reason they couldn't kill C'thun was that the fight had numerous bugs
also as for the nihilum kill
the reason for the uproar was that nihilum killed him by exploiting with a pet
there is a pet in the game called stinky oozling or something like that.back in the days it had a debuff that every time you were summoning it was removing a duff/debuff that the tank had,so they managed to kill the boss some hours after the fix,now nihilum never admitted that they did that but unfortunately for them their main-tank/gm on the kill shot you could see the debuff/macro/pet whatever you want to call it! :P

bear in mind that they have done the same think with various more bosses like lady vashj twin eredars and hodir hard mode(they claimed that because it was impossible to kill him they had to cheat/exploit/"enter the word you like here") and Lich King heroic up till LK they never had any problems with blizzard and their cheating but on arthas they all got banned for 72 hours or something like that!

That's pretty damn smart of them.

[Huggykaze]

the reason they couldn't kill C'thun was that the fight had numerous bugs
also as for the nihilum kill
the reason for the uproar was that nihilum killed him by exploiting with a pet
there is a pet in the game called stinky oozling or something like that.back in the days it had a debuff that every time you were summoning it was removing a duff/debuff that the tank had,so they managed to kill the boss some hours after the fix,now nihilum never admitted that they did that but unfortunately for them their main-tank/gm on the kill shot you could see the debuff/macro/pet whatever you want to call it! :P

bear in mind that they have done the same think with various more bosses like lady vashj twin eredars and hodir hard mode(they claimed that because it was impossible to kill him they had to cheat/exploit/"enter the word you like here") and Lich King heroic up till LK they never had any problems with blizzard and their cheating but on arthas they all got banned for 72 hours or something like that!

I'd like to see some SS of when they claimed that they 'cheated'...

[MortalWombat]

That's pretty damn smart of them.

There are loads of way to bypass things just look at the rogue soloing Patchwerk and Grobb. Just because it was smart doesn't mean it isn't bugging a fight. If you're using something from outside of the raid like that pet to get past a part of a fight, you're exploiting it. Doesn't matter if it was smart, it is still exploiting.

[Asrialol]

This thread is turning into a Nihilum exploit thread. Can't be good for buisness.

[Kalokagathos]

the reason they couldn't kill C'thun was that the fight had numerous bugs
also as for the nihilum kill
the reason for the uproar was that nihilum killed him by exploiting with a pet
there is a pet in the game called stinky oozling or something like that.back in the days it had a debuff that every time you were summoning it was removing a duff/debuff that the tank had,so they managed to kill the boss some hours after the fix,now nihilum never admitted that they did that but unfortunately for them their main-tank/gm on the kill shot you could see the debuff/macro/pet whatever you want to call it! :P

bear in mind that they have done the same think with various more bosses like lady vashj twin eredars and hodir hard mode(they claimed that because it was impossible to kill him they had to cheat/exploit/"enter the word you like here") and Lich King heroic up till LK they never had any problems with blizzard and their cheating but on arthas they all got banned for 72 hours or something like that!

If its true that Nihilum used an in-game pet which removes buffs, its still not exploiting.. It's clever use of game mechanics.. (Unless it was a bug).. The difference between the kill on LK is that there was a bug that they misused..