cata raids/5mans and attunements/gating

[aether99]

Now ive been a long time player AGAINST attunements and gated raiding. Thought the entire idea sucked.

Now in my opinion vanilla was too strict with it, it was no fun.

TBC however...well, i was wondering one day why was it that the entire length of TBC i never had gotten bored with it, yet after it seems a year i was bored with wotlk?

Then i remembered about the attunements and gated raiding. How i had to do quest chains to get keys (like say alcatraz, which at the time was one of the toughest heroics). How i joined a guild that was farming kara and working gruul even though SSC was out. How the guild progressed to SSC and that one bloodelf raid (cant remember it right now) while top guilds were in black temple.

How heroics, even in epics could be hard sometimes (and downright nightmares for people in blues). How when you got some epic equipment it felt like you worked for it without making you feel like your better then everyone (that was vanilla imo).

This may seem contradictory for some people, but for me, being funneled thru attunements and gated raiding i progress thru the story of the game better, i built a stronger connection to my guild and guildmates (wotlk sometimes it doesnt feel that way unless you were with the guild since tbc or vanilla) and was able to experience all the content, keeping me from getting bored a year in.

dont get me wrong, tbc wasnt perfect, some of the grinding required was dumb (id rather have a rediculously long, story driven quest chain then farm specific 5 mans to get into heroics for example) and the story telling wasnt at the forefront like it was in wotlk questing.

What im saying is i actually think id like a return of these attunements and gated raiding (so guilds have to progress thru certain raids to get to others)

The only people I think this would ultimatlely run the wrong way would be people who only want to be at the top tier of gear/raiding...or people with alts.

Id say if the person is currently raiding that top end content, there should be a way to get there alts in there without quite so much attunement/gating simply because after the first 1st character it becomes incredibly like mindless grinding, youve seen it all before, and its no longer any fun.

im curious to see other peoples opinions on this.

[kingmob]

You can't just give alts preferential treatment. Yes it's mind-numbing grinding but if you're shifting from a different role (say from dps to tanking or healing to dps) you shouldn't just get a free ride as what you're doing in an encounter and what you need to be aware of is oftentimes very different (even in fights like Sindy hard mode going from physical dps to caster dps is a world of difference).

...and that's in part why attunements won't make a comeback. Nor should they.

[aether99]

You can't just give alts preferential treatment. Yes it's mind-numbing grinding but if you're shifting from a different role (say from dps to tanking or healing to dps) you shouldn't just get a free ride as what you're doing in an encounter and what you need to be aware of is oftentimes very different (even in fights like Sindy hard mode going from physical dps to caster dps is a world of difference).

...and that's in part why attunements won't make a comeback. Nor should they.

and your entitled to your opinion, but im sure there are ways to get around that issue, im not saying you have to eliminate it entirely.

and yes i do think alts should get preferential treatment in regards to the attunements and such, this is merely you and I differing on opinion, not one of us being right or wrong.

Also, your argument of what you do in an encounter and what you need to be aware of is barely a argument if that. That would be the issue even if this wasnt your alt but your main.

But either way i respect your opinion even if you disagree, and I thank you for sharing it ^^ (sorry, im just horrendous at defending my arguments even if i try not to)

[Underskilled]

I think forced progression on a character is a wonderful idea. These days every Nancy know-nothing can scrap up a set of tanking or healing gear, and expect to be able to preform in end-content. Also with people running and getting geared from other raids not every will look the same.

[Shuckless]

You can't just give alts preferential treatment. Yes it's mind-numbing grinding but if you're shifting from a different role (say from dps to tanking or healing to dps) you shouldn't just get a free ride as what you're doing in an encounter and what you need to be aware of is oftentimes very different (even in fights like Sindy hard mode going from physical dps to caster dps is a world of difference).

...and that's in part why attunements won't make a comeback. Nor should they.

I do not agree with this. Let us say you were doing Attunements as a Boomkin, but then you changed to Feral Tanking once you got into raids... See what I did there? According to your idea, I should have to do them all over again.


I say Attunements should come back for main raids(I wouldn't want one for VoA equivelant in Cata), and if completed on 1 character, transfers over to the other characters.

[aether99]

I do not agree with this. Let us say you were doing Attunements as a Boomkin, but then you changed to Feral Tanking once you got into raids... See what I did there? According to your idea, I should have to do them all over again.


I say Attunements should come back for main raids(I wouldn't want one for VoA equivelant in Cata), and if completed on 1 character, transfers over to the other characters.

Im not sure if a entire transfer would be wise either, but a way to make it vastly easier and less grindlike for alts.

[Mandible]

Attunements should come back in its full form, but possibly tied to the guild system - in the sense that the gm could tag a new player needed to have it completed in special cases once the guild had enough attuned in the first place.

[ragemaw]

I think forced progression on a character is a wonderful idea. These days every Nancy know-nothing can scrap up a set of tanking or healing gear, and expect to be able to preform in end-content. Also with people running and getting geared from other raids not every will look the same.

Totally agree with this And with the ease of pugging now, it would not be as much of a burden as in TBC when you could maybe find good Kara pugs, but anything else was virtually impossible without a guild. And for people to look different, they need to stop making tier gear buyable with badges. That's what causing everyone to look the same.

[aether99]

Totally agree with this And with the ease of pugging now, it would not be as much of a burden as in TBC when you could maybe find good Kara pugs, but anything else was virtually impossible without a guild. And for people to look different, they need to stop making tier gear buyable with badges. That's what causing everyone to look the same.

im torn on the tier gear with badges really.

but as for looking the same, if you have the same gear as someone else chances are theyw ill look alike. only rememdy for that i could see would be a indepth re-paint system wher eyou can change the colors of your armor/weapons.

but thats neither here nor there.

[ragemaw]

I think they should just have the tier slot gear, not the actual tier gear. Especially with 10 and 25 man dropping the same gear, if you can get tier gear from the vendor, then either it's not going to drop off bosses, or it no one will want it in raids really quickly. Tier should be what you strive for as a raider, not something you can get just by being casual.

[Solarshot]

have the final quest reward of a attunement chain, be a boa book like the one for cold weather flying. That gives access to X raid/zone/whatever. Wouldn't have to add any new mechanics to the game, such as cross character achievements. Just rework how the tome has unlimited uses or something.

[Parsee The Magical Prot]

I thought Blizzard said something about not wanting to bring attunements back to make the content more accessible.

I'd welcome them back, but it's hoping for what seems to be a lost cause now.

[Heenk]

Attunements should come back in guild form: guild reaches a certain threshold; all subsequent new members are automatically attuned. Attunement quests should still be availabe for nostalgia or /gquit purposes though

[aether99]

I thought Blizzard said something about not wanting to bring attunements back to make the content more accessible.

I'd welcome them back, but it's hoping for what seems to be a lost cause now.

did they say that for cata? i remember they said it for wotlk. they also said they learned a lot from tbc and wotlk.

Maybe they have found a different method to keep people interested, though i think it would keep people interested longer if there were these attunements and gated content.

I remember that I took a break around the time ulduar came about, and came back after people were done with it. Ive gone in there a few times now for things like the weekly. Looks like it was probably the best raid in all of wotlk from a design standpoint, and it actually felt epic unlike ICC which felt quite bland by comparison.

[Lordmajeh]

I didnt start playing until right near the end of bc (think my char was 62 when wrath came out) so i never did any of the attunement for anything, however on the topic of everyone looking the same i do have some input:

a) tier gear from badges makes it easier for casuals to gear up and be able to raid, which is something blizzard likes as most of their consumer base is casuals.

b) since everyone has the same gear, blizz should introduce something like dyes that inscriptors could make that would change the color of one of your gear pieces. Its been done in a few other mmo's i've played and while im not saying to straight up copy them, it'd be a good mechanic to look at (hin hint blizz)

[vesseblah]

Now ive been a long time player AGAINST attunements and gated raiding. Thought the entire idea sucked.

Now in my opinion vanilla was too strict with it, it was no fun.

TBC however...well, i was wondering one day why was it that the entire length of TBC i never had gotten bored with it, yet after it seems a year i was bored with wotlk?

First thing that comes to my mind reading this is "lolwut?" and "are we talking about the same game even?"

Vanilla had strict attunements?
MC? Complete BRD once (can be cheated in 10min)
BWL? Complete UBRS once
Ony? ~10 solo quests + 2 normal instance runs
AQ? No attunement at all (assuming somebody else did the quest chain)
Naxx? Pay enchanting mats, or if enough rep, free

Compared to http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...attunement.jpg ...

[GennGreymane]

i dont like attunments


"oh they are epic quests"

aside from a few new features like killing alar as an ashtounge...... the actual raid part of the quests was a usual tuesday night.



i mean heroics and maybe a solo quest line is nice, but the zone should reflect the raid i mean the manaforges were pumping magic into tempest keep..... thats really it for the zones link to tempest keep. plus the magic all went to kael thas the other bosses reflected nothing of the zone hell not even mobs in the zone. (exept blood elves)

i really like how the zone leads into the raid. a small attunment that forces the main quest line into those zones (unlocking a much needed faction rep or sumtin)is the best

trust me attunments sucked. i mean i haaaaaaated getting ppl attuned i never wanted to do t5 when i finally got into t6 and had several guilds break over it

[5hs]

I wouldn't mind having a miniature form of attunement to progress into further content, like having to defeat XT, for example, to progress into ToC. Likewise, defeating Jaraxxus or Faction Champs to go into ICC, and so on if there was more tiers.

[aether99]

pretty strong opposition against, in the very least id like to see a sort of gated raiding, for probably entirely selfish reasons. ive never been a top tier raider (never stepped foot in level 60 naxx or black temple). But i enjoyed progressing thru the actual raids, made the guild feel more closely knit and the wins felt earned.

now my shaman once he dinged 80, farmed heroics until he had full tier 9, and almost full ilvl 232 equipment, and then stepped foot into ICC10.

I skipped every single raid encounter prior to that, and doing icc10 didnt feel epic, hell barely noteworthy, kara felt more epic by comparison.

But hell maybe im just getting over the game /shrug

[Cattleya]

Although I wouldn't mind attunements coming back, forced attunement like in TBC goes completely against Blizzard's ideal of having easily accessable content.

Something they could do is to handle it with simple locked doors/barriers/portals/whatever, like karazhan (late TBC karazhan that is, when all you needed was someone to open the gate). Have a lengthy questline (be it solo, 5-man, or raid quests), but only require one person in the raid to do it in order to get in.

Most of all though, I just want big epic questlines that culminate into your reason for entering a raid. Take Storm Peaks' Sons of Hodir for example, it's a huge and awesome questline, and at the end you witness Thorim being spirited away to Ulduar by large tentacles, giving you a perfect reason to go to Ulduar and save him.
WotLK was overall kind of lacking in that regard, with us entering the obsidian sanctum with no in-game reason whatsoever, just randomly flying into Naxxramas without any quests leading to it, and Malygos wasn't handled that well either, with a 9 level gap between the Tundra quests and you suddenly getting some key to his lair.
Then there's ICC, sure we've got plenty reason to go in there throughout the expansion, but none of the questlines actually tell you something along the lines of "Alright, now's the time to head in there and kick ass!". Instead, the gates are suddenly just open and you waltz in, again, without a quest.

That's my 2 cents anyway, I'm a sucker for neat quests :<