how much damage does a 5 stack lava lash do?

[Yautjalv426]

340% off hand damage is around how much with cata weapons?

[LyskaWF]

What's the point of this question? We don't know what the 85 weapons or the rest of the gear are, and knowing what 3.4*OHWeapon Damage is pretty much useless and doesn't require its own thread.

[Yautjalv426]

beta lets u get to 85 now genious. when did i say 3.4? 3.6 is what i meant obviously. shoo! go away!

[Koen]

But beta doesn't have level 85 loot yet genious. shoo! go away!

[grifty]

genius*

[nazrakin]

With a 83 blue axe, it hits for ~9-10k and crits for ~15k.

[Sylreick]

I thought I read somewhere that numbers weren't tweaked yet.

[Aleksej89]

numbrz not yet finalized.

But it should be a hard hitting spell on a longer cooldown.
Mandatory for enha obviously.

[AedanWolfe]

numbrz not yet finalized.

But it should be a hard hitting spell on a longer cooldown.
Mandatory for enha obviously.

I have to ask, why were we given this ability? it causes us to have another stack to watch which is annoying in itself.

I guess the main thing i dislike is it feels "cheap". By that I mean they could have done so many things with lavalash other then pure damage. But they give us 5 talents that are mandatory, for a slow ramp up damage ability, that requires our totem to be within range, within LoS for the amount of time required to get those 5 stacks. and then what do we get for our trouble? numbers, thats it. some secondary effect would be nice.

But more then that, its a new ability, a entire mechanic that just screams to me crappy in pvp. why cant they make it worthwhile in both? Im assuming its to give us a easy option to take points out of to choose our pvp talents? Which tells me they dont plan on slimming the tree much either.

[LyskaWF]

Awesome, we now know that with some random set of gear, an 83 blue crits for 15k. You guys should really consider putting some of this good stuff up on EJ. I think it would help us a lot.

[matharu]

there is lvl 85 loot in atm, you can buy the rep axes from tol barad without the rep (until they change it)

with 5 stacks, i have seen lava lash crit anywhere between 23 and 33k, hits for half that obv. The largest crit I have seen was 52k, but that was on a boss that may have had a +dmg taken debuff, I'm not sure, but it was a one off, hasn't been anywhere near that since

[coliseum]

too many 'geniouses' in this thread

I have to ask, why were we given this ability? it causes us to have another stack to watch which is annoying in itself.

I guess the main thing i dislike is it feels "cheap". By that I mean they could have done so many things with lavalash other then pure damage. But they give us 5 talents that are mandatory, for a slow ramp up damage ability, that requires our totem to be within range, within LoS for the amount of time required to get those 5 stacks. and then what do we get for our trouble? numbers, thats it. some secondary effect would be nice.

But more then that, its a new ability, a entire mechanic that just screams to me crappy in pvp. why cant they make it worthwhile in both? Im assuming its to give us a easy option to take points out of to choose our pvp talents? Which tells me they dont plan on slimming the tree much either

^well said

[Stormwolfe]

Holy balls!! why dont they make searing flames work off of magma totem too??? that way you can have stacks of searing flames on multiple mobs and lava lash each of them!!!

[Neichus]

Personally I rather like the mechanic from a PvE perspective; it's not just "another stacking mechanic." Unlike Maelstrom, which goes from worthless at 4 to top priority at 5, it's a shifting priority that changes depending on how many stacks. I think it adds a nice twist to Enhancement.

In any case, my personal dream is that they slim Searing Flames down to a 1-point talent; that way the whole package is 3 points, and can very neatly be relocated into Toughness for PvP. My bigger concern is its interaction with Flametongue Totem (or, rather, lack thereof).

[AedanWolfe]

@ Neichus, while you may like the mechanic from a pve perspective. Im curious in blizzards intentions. While we had issues in pve in wotlk, I dont think we needed a vastly changed dps mechanic. lavaburst made sense from a synergistic standpoint to be added, and it was in at one point in beta anyways in wotlk.

Its 5 talent points for a largely uninteresting mechanic, maybe if it had some flexibility, both in mechanic and application. it would make more sense.

Our pve standing couldve been solved with few and simple changes, almost none of which they have addressed, and have only served to make our dps system slightly cleaner at first (not refreshing LS, not having to put fire nova in our rotation) but them made it convoluted again (searing flames/lavalash mechanic, inability to coexist with our aoe in any form)

Furthermore, we had many more issues in pvp then pve, most classes saw progression in pvp in some form so far in beta (in terms of talents/spells) yet enhancement gets pve abilities thru and thru.

for instance, why was unleashed elements a pve ability? it couldve been made a interesting and awesome pvp ability! it is literally just another button to press, it actually has very little synergy, and the synergy it does have is conflicting. Its boring.

Searing flames takes too long to ramp up, and only serves burst in PVE...why would we care? sure it might be pretty for a big number, but thats it. meanwhile it couldve been made into a useful pvp talent given a faster ramp up time and a secondary effect on the DoT.

People say burst will be less in cata, but it will still be just as important, moreso even, because you will need to time it better to capitilize on your opponents mistake and push them on a hard target switch or break the LoS and burst them down. Burst is never gonna die.[COLOR="red"]



edit: literally our only two major issues in pve were movement, and damage. one seems to be addressed to a extent with ancestral swiftness and spiritwalkers grace (for when you have to run out you can still cast some spells, not amazing, but its better then just running away). and damage can be affected by both our specialization feature, and the talents themselves by pure numbers tweak.

other then that the only other issue was how passive our dps was (40% white 10-15% windfury, 15-20% maelstrom, 6-8% static shock)...thats a sad amount of damage to be passive considering how involved our dps is.

after that (which could be fixed with small changes) we couldve recieved pvp love, and less bloat in our tree.

we do actually have bloat, we can take all dps talents, and still have dps talents left over. There isnt a time where you can say "well ther eisnt any dps talents left, so what do i want?/think would be most useful?"

betas not over, but its very underwhelming atm

[LyskaWF]

other then that the only other issue was how passive our dps was (40% white 10-15% windfury, 15-20% maelstrom, 6-8% static shock)...thats a sad amount of damage to be passive considering how involved our dps is.

I understand and partially agree with the point you're trying to make here, but there are some things you need to take into consideration. You need to consider how much of our damage is converted to white attacks by pushing other buttons. It's not a ton, but there is a huge difference between auto-attacking and what you're saying is "passive."

[AedanWolfe]

I understand and partially agree with the point you're trying to make here, but there are some things you need to take into consideration. You need to consider how much of our damage is converted to white attacks by pushing other buttons. It's not a ton, but there is a huge difference between auto-attacking and what you're saying is "passive."

autoattack is passive, no matter how you look at it. things that you do might "boost" it making it higher, but its still passive damage.

Just like how maelstrom technically isnt passive cuz of the reaction time difference between hitting lightning bolt and seeing the 5th stack go off. its still passively generated.

fact is about 70ish % of our damage isnt reliant on our skill at our class. autoattack is understandable, windfury is iconic, maelstrom is difficult to balance, and static shock has no excuse.

id be happier if 50% of our damage was passive.

[guser]

I have to ask, why were we given this ability? it causes us to have another stack to watch which is annoying in itself.

I guess the main thing i dislike is it feels "cheap". By that I mean they could have done so many things with lavalash other then pure damage. But they give us 5 talents that are mandatory, for a slow ramp up damage ability, that requires our totem to be within range, within LoS for the amount of time required to get those 5 stacks. and then what do we get for our trouble? numbers, thats it. some secondary effect would be nice.

But more then that, its a new ability, a entire mechanic that just screams to me crappy in pvp. why cant they make it worthwhile in both? Im assuming its to give us a easy option to take points out of to choose our pvp talents? Which tells me they dont plan on slimming the tree much either.

agree

this crappy new mechanic will only increase our problems in fights which require movement :\
maybe they could make searing totem float with you like a pet? (lul i cant get this out of my head.. it would be so cool and solve range issues.. searing range at least)
oh and while im dreaming, a reduction of charges it applies to 3.. 5 just takes way too long

[Neichus]

@AedanWolfe
I don't PvP so I can't argue with you on how fine or not fine Shamans are; even on these forums I read conflicting reports ranging from "hopeless" to "good but restricted to particular comps" to "amazing but hard." So all I can conclude is that Enhance is, at the very least, not a FotM PvP spec. Unfortunately that's all I can say on the topic that seems to be your primary concern.

Anyway, from the PvE side of things to touch on a few points:
-Magma Totem, Searing Totem, and Fire Nova: Blizzard has been pushing to separate the single-target and AoE components of DPS in Cataclysm; you'll notice things like Divine Storm and Whirlwind and dropping out of single-target rotations, and so too with Magma Totem and Fire Nova. The fact that Fire Nova doesn't work with Searing Totem just further emphasizes this. Also by removing the AoE abilities it also fixes a bit of the issue where Shamans were extra punished for their targets moving out of range of their Magma totem.

-Searing Flames: My experience in beta with this talent is that it adds a nice "moving target" to Lava Lash's priority. It no longer has a set place in your list but instead moves up and down based on how many stacks of Searing Flames there are. Out of the pure-priority specs Enhance has the most complex list, but notice how nearly every other pure-priority spec got itself changed in Cataclysm because they were too simplistic in nature. Since Enhancement is not receiving a new resource or secondary system, I think it's only natural that Blizzard is taking a look at its priority system and embellishing it.

-Unleash Elements: I'm surprised you say this has no interaction with other abilities. The duration on the Flametongue bonus is actually only a few seconds, meaning that you're going to want to line it up with Flame Shock or Lava Burst. Just hitting it on cooldown will probably be a waste, especially since I'm going to guess that you're always going to want to ensure a 20% increase Flame Shock.

In any case, I don't disagree with everything you said. The talent tree is bloated without a doubt and the fact that all our remaining points can be spent in Elemental is worse (in my perfect world Static Shock and Elemental Devastation are 2 points, Searing Flames 1 point, and Primal Wisdom made into a tree bonus). I'm concerned about how Flametongue Totem will take precedence over Searing Totem, removing a whole mechanic from the class and reducing 5 talent points to "your Lava Lash does 30% more damage." I'm also irritated that Searing Totem is still a special kid; it attacks random targets as far as I can tell, including neutrals and critters, before focusing on what I'm attacking. But I'm just not that worried either. Right now Enhance feels good to play on beta (again with a few caveats), while other specs definitely need some more refinement of their actual playstyles. I figure Blizzard is just putting their energies elsewhere and that Enhance will have its turn.

[LyskaWF]

autoattack is passive, no matter how you look at it. things that you do might "boost" it making it higher, but its still passive damage.

Just like how maelstrom technically isnt passive cuz of the reaction time difference between hitting lightning bolt and seeing the 5th stack go off. its still passively generated.

fact is about 70ish % of our damage isnt reliant on our skill at our class. autoattack is understandable, windfury is iconic, maelstrom is difficult to balance, and static shock has no excuse.

id be happier if 50% of our damage was passive.

I think we have different views of passive damage. To me, "passive damage" is essential "/startattack and /afk." Now I could be wrong, but I doubt I could do 9-13k dps (depending on fight) by doing that.