Following the conversation -
VanCleef. Is. <3
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*Cough*
Hating a corrupt nobility is one thing. Turning into a terrorist organization that kills innocent civilians in its blind quest for some sort of childish "revenge?" Unacceptable.
And let that be a lesson to all his terrorist friends (and his daughter).
Pfft Edwin did not deserve to be threated as garbbage by the nobles, not paying for the work that took seven years and then offering him another job while his fellow stonemason would just be laughed up in the face. No Edwin would not turn down his friends.
Why could not Chin King have seen through this and forced the corrupt bastards to pay that man, one less threat for Stormwind and a new ally. But the one to really blame this is the corrupt nobles with Katrana in the lead
Are we ok with going a little off topic here?
VanCleef was a damn hero! If it weren't for him Stormwind would have still been wreckage for years after the war. He was a brilliant architect, a genius, he rebuilt the City from rubble to make it what it was. He got work for many people who probably desperately needed it, and made the last Capital of the humans something worth looking at.
After a decade of tiring, difficult, incredibly well done work that should have set him up as the greatest human engineer the World had ever known.
After all that, he was refused pay. AND. AND! Instead of betraying his workers with taking up a Governmental position, he stuck by them. Hows that for Loyalty!
He is a proper tragic hero. He was betrayed, he was a good person, who's only flaw was integrity! Much better to identify with him than "Evil Demon" or "Mad Dragon" or "Paladin-turned-lich-must-destroy-everything-person."
Also, look at what he is wearing. Such Style too.
After I started to get into the Lore of the game I read up about him and realised how annoyed I was at killing him. It was the Nobles I should have killed. You see as much when you do all those epic quest chains around Stormwind, like the Seal of Wrynn one.
Two wrongs don't make a right, especially when the first wrong was just money and the second was people's lives =)
Greed is a petty thing to fight over.
Not cool ~.~
---------- Post added 2010-10-18 at 08:46 PM ----------
Greed? 10 years of the best work he had ever done. Imagine not getting paid for 10 years after everything he had done.
10 years, the prime of his life, doing the most impressive work humans have ever seen. And then he gets spat at?
If the Dwarves had done that and been refused pay, they would have killed the Nobles. They wouldn't have given it a second thought. They would have taken out their axes / hammers and smashed their heads in. Then they would have been killed by Guards and it would be Civil War. And the Dwarves would have won, too.
He was not really greedy, just pissed off by corrupt bastards who did not give him what he deserved and rather wanted him to betray his friends and fellow Stonemason workers who had shared as much sweat and pain as he had with rebuilding Stormwind.
and lets stop there don't want this thread closed
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Also, he didn't kill Civilians. Some of the Defias did, but who said he ordered that? The Defias was started to get revenge on the Nobles, but it attracted bandits and VanCleef can't control all of them. If someone does something bad in the name of the Defias, it isn't VanCleef's fault.
That's like saying Rommel was an evil person who deserved to be killed because some of his soldiers did bad things. No >_>

Like lying to the most powerful mortal druid because of some childish "revenge" is?
Van Cleef is awesome, one of the best tragic heroes in Warcraft. Hey, even Arthas was led astray and became a monster, Sylvanas is an evil-minded bitch, but the stories of both are interesting and compelling.
Dunno, I can't hate a character for what they do. If I do hate them it's because they're either being hypocritical or their story is weak.
It is yet his fault for creating the organization in the first place. And before we get into another Maiev argument, she never did anything wrong to anyone. Have your own personal opinions about how bad her lie to Furion was, but Tyrande lived, anyway, and even if she hadn't, you couldn't have blamed Maiev for it when Tyrande jumped off the bridge of her own free will.
Well what would you have done in the mind set of Maiev if you had been spat at kicked in the stomach and told to betray your friends after you have done the best work you had ever done that took ten whole years of your life. Also lets pretend Night elves lives just as long as humans on this.
Here's an on topic response;
Someone draw a fan art of Tyrande falling off a bridge, I can't seem to find one =(