Priest PW: Shield gimped?

[AlexGrey]

What's the point in speccing in disc then? There are no interesting mechanics, exept Strength of soul that support that. Any somewhat interesting talents are about PW:S, but we are not supposed to use it

I think they are turning it into 'weaker shields but more often' because of Strength of Soul in particular. So in that sense, the shields may remain just as important, but the healer needs to be more careful.

[Deleted]

I think they are turning it into 'weaker shields but more often' because of Strength of Soul in particular. So in that sense, the shields may remain just as important, but the healer needs to be more careful.

WRONG PW:S isnt worth the MANA anymore, a flashheal does MORE than PW:S...hell even renew ticks for mor with 2 ticks than PW:S absorbs.

ATM the whole disc tree is utter crap...
New mechanics they dont mesh together AT ALL, and on their own they are just horrible.

Mastery that boost a PW:S which is prolly one of the most expensive and useless heals/absorbs in game and therefore not worth casting?
Mastery that boosts DA which only procs of crits , and in case you didnt notice crit will be around 15% in cata (at the start), so in 15% of the time you place a 30% of your heal bubble around someone , most likely a SINGLE person since you cant really use many aoes cause of mana.

Yeah sounds great..............and the mastery boosts those small bubbles, big deal .........

Asssume you use HEAL 3sec cast and at 4k SP it heals for roughly 8-9 k

AT 15% crit you need 15 heals to trigger ONE DA

A 9k HEAL puts a 2,7 k DA around that person.
Mastery improves that bubble by 540

SO every 15 heals which summ up to 135k points healed you put a mastery boosted 3,24k bubble DA around that person.

I hope you understand how absurd disc is atm. You heal more with 1-2 tick of a BANDAGE than the whole DA + mastery absorbs for.


ATm disc is broken beyond repair and needs almost a complete redesign....

[Deleted]

ATm disc is broken beyond repair and needs almost a complete redesign....

/agree

[Ananan]

AT 15% crit you need 15 heals to trigger ONE DA

Eh, no.

[Nisala]

I really feel they've made a mistake pushing discipline away from what it does best, and more importantly, uniquely. What they are doing is effectively homogenising how discipline and holy play (because they will be using the same spells, to slightly different effects) but currently not offering discipline any way to improve these heals, which of course Holy has an abundance of.

By reducing the importance of shields, discipline's value becomes largely worthless. It's effectively reverting to what it used to be before; a spec with lacklustre healing and a couple of interesting cooldowns that have some value. They were the pain suppressors and power infusers of TBC, and a largely abandoned spec in pve because of it... and it would seem in it's current state, it's falling right back into that niche. Not a good niche to fall back into, at all.

That said, I have faith that Blizzard will recognise Discipline's struggle and look to more ways of incorporating absorbs into the play-style. It doesn't have to be PW: Shield spam. They can bring more emphasis to Divine Aegis, they can create more absorb procs off of spells. I actually brainstormed once that they could even consider introducing magic and physical shields that absorb the two types of damage, and these could be like modes that we can switch between, a bit like the solar-lunar idea for balance Druids.

There are so many interesting, and frankly cool ways to make absorbs an interesting, but not overpowered way of playing... And I think the game would benefit from this additional dynamic.

[Azyoulike]

That's a good point. Maybe they intend for priests to cast it more often on a single target in-between heals rather than casting several shields.

There's no point casting more PW:Ss on the tank if PW:S has it's HPCT reduced to the point that it's not much better than heal anyway.

PW:S doesn't scale as well as heal with haste, or crit, only with mastery&SP, so there's a great risk that SoS will end up entirely useless without them doing some serious dicking with disc.

[Rivin]

Everyone QQing about how awful the numbers are: numbers aren't final! They're still tweaking everything. If PW: Shield is so weak that Flash Heal (which costs a crapton of mana now, remember) is worth casting instead, they'll want to fix that.

[Kiora]

Although I'm a Shadow Priest mainly, it is getting pretty frustrating waiting for Discipline to get any good, solid attention. Even a quarter of what Paladins are getting would be lovely.

The whole mechanic of preventing damage is fun and numbers aren't final but even then, the tree is pretty boring to spec into.

AT 15% crit you need 15 heals to trigger ONE DA

You might want to double check your math on that.

[Deleted]

You might want to double check your math on that.

My fault, at 15% crit about every 10th heal crits and triggers DA

[Vook]

My question is this: Is this meant to be an intended gimp by blizzard to weaken the effect of the spell, thus encouraging the use of other spells in the Priest's arsenal?

Most likely. But like others have said, the +Absorb Mastery will most likely balance it out a little bit.

My fault, at 15% crit about every 10th heal crits and triggers DA

Random crits are random. You can have 1% crit chance and still get 3 crits in a row.

[Bigslick]

My fault, at 15% crit about every 10th heal crits and triggers DA

You might want to check your math on that again ;-)

[Deleted]

Random crits are random. You can have 1% crit chance and still get 3 crits in a row.

Oh well i guess then the world doesnt need the theory of probabilities and probability law and maths anymore, somebody should tell the universities and shools ^^
If random crits are random and cant be calculated why is there a value like 15% crit 45% crit ? :P

Following your argument crit values would be pointless, cause the chance to get 3 crits in a row with a 1% critrating would be the same as a 69% critrating.


---------- Post added 2010-09-11 at 11:17 PM ----------

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You might want to check your math on that again ;-)

I did, maybe you are able to post YOURS ?

[Kiora]

Oh well i guess then the world doesnt need the theory of probabilities and probability law and maths anymore, somebody should tell the universities and shools ^^
If random crits are random and cant be calculated why is there a value like 15% crit 45% crit ? :P

Following your argument crit values would be pointless, cause the chance to get 3 crits in a row with a 1% critrating would be the same as a 69% critrating.


---------- Post added 2010-09-11 at 11:17 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

I did, maybe you are able to post YOURS ?

Probability shows the probable but not the only possible. The way you're looking at the numbers is as if you're removing chances from a box so that eventually only one outcome is left. And you're also only looking at the immediate sample size when probability works somewhere along the lines of infinity. A person with extreme luck COULD get three crits in a row with a 1% crit chance just as a person with 50% critical chance could score three criticals in a row. One just has a probability of 1 out of 1,000,000 while the other has a probability of 1 out of 8. But both are completely possible.

And with a 15% crit rate, it would take somewhere between 6 or 7 casts on average.

[Deleted]

Probability shows the probable but not the only possible. The way you're looking at the numbers is as if you're removing chances from a box so that eventually only one outcome is left. And you're also only looking at the immediate sample size when probability works somewhere along the lines of infinity. A person with extreme luck COULD get three crits in a row with a 1% crit chance just as a person with 50% critical chance could score three criticals in a row. One just has a probability of 1 out of 1,000,000 while the other has a probability of 1 out of 8. But both are completely possible.

And with a 15% crit rate, it would take somewhere between 6 or 7 casts on average.

Nitpicking arent you ?
Of course its POSSIBLE to get 3 crits in a row with 1% critrating and to NOT get 1 crit out of 3 with a 99% critrating.
If the devs wouldnt use maths to determine probability, crit wouldnt be ingame in the first place.
Its not about whats possible but whats probable.
Its is possible to kill the LK solo IF some unquie never seen bug allows me to be unkillable, is it probable ? NO, should the game be designed keeping in mind that such a bug could happen ? Certainly not.

15% chance to get a crit on a heal means you need at least 10 heals on average to score a critical heal.

[Kelesti]

15% chance to get a crit on a heal means you need at least 10 heals on average to score a critical heal.

Please continue, we're all finding this entertaining.

[Kiora]

Nitpicking arent you ?
Of course its POSSIBLE to get 3 crits in a row with 1% critrating and to NOT get 1 crit out of 3 with a 99% critrating.
If the devs wouldnt use maths to determine probability, crit wouldnt be ingame in the first place.
Its not about whats possible but whats probable.
Its is possible to kill the LK solo IF some unquie never seen bug allows me to be unkillable, is it probable ? NO, should the game be designed keeping in mind that such a bug could happen ? Certainly not.

15% chance to get a crit on a heal means you need at least 10 heals on average to score a critical heal.

One thing I forgot to address is that you misunderstand the meaning of "random" in terms of probability especially as how Vook referred to it. Random in probability means that there is no semblence of pattern or order, not that things are just chosen without considering probability. And you always have to look at a sample size of infinity. Just because you get nine negative results in a 1 out of 10 probability doesn't mean that the next one WILL be a positive. If you get another negative, probability dictates that in the next ten you'll get two positives to make it two out of twenty, but it doesn't mean it will happen. That's the fun of random. I learned that lesson when I went fourteen months in Karazhan never seeing the Nathrezim Mindblade even though it apparently had a 12 out of 100 drop rate or so.

And regarding 15%, look at it like a 15/100 probability. Since you're just looking for ONE of the casts being a positive, you add 15/100 to itself until you get to 1 because saying at least one spell out of X will critical is saying "Either the first will crit or the second will crit or... the Xth will crit". Adding 15/100 to itself six times will yield 90/100 and another time will make 105/100, meaning that it is somewhere between the sixth and seventh cast that will yield a critical.

And regarding the thing about a bug in the Lich King encounter... I just blew out a few candles, can't have fire hazards around a strawman of that size.

[Shawaam]

15% chance to get a crit on a heal means you need at least 10 heals on average to score a critical heal.

You need a minimum of seven casts to be guaranteed a crit, purely mathematically. Though crits are as you said random, with 15% crit you'd most likely only need 4-5. So I have no idea where your numbers come from...

[Azyoulike]

Everyone QQing about how awful the numbers are: numbers aren't final! They're still tweaking everything. If PW: Shield is so weak that Flash Heal (which costs a crapton of mana now, remember) is worth casting instead, they'll want to fix that.

Numbers aren't final, but trends are worrying. The issue isn't that FH will be preferable to PW:S, they're not comparable anyway due to mana cost differential.

The correct comparison is with Renew. And given that renew is scaling far better than PW:S, it's entirely possible that we'll end up using PW:S just to get BT to supercharge renew & penance in a raid healing context.

In order to make that not the case we'll need PW:S to be far bigger than a renew at low haste/crit, but the trend is going in the other direction.

[AlexGrey]

ATm disc is broken beyond repair and needs almost a complete redesign....

Ya I've been reading around and it's starting to look more and more like that, especially with the inflated amount of talents in Disc. I just hope they haven't finished polishing the tree yet b/c it's starting to look fairly pointless.

[Kelesti]

The correct comparison is with Renew. And given that renew is scaling far better than PW:S, it's entirely possible that we'll end up using PW:S just to get BT to supercharge renew & penance in a raid healing context.
In order to make that not the case we'll need PW:S to be far bigger than a renew at low haste/crit, but the trend is going in the other direction.

Well that's not necessarily the correct comparison, either. The only reason that comparison works now is because of aura damage, which should never have happened in the first place. Shields fill the role of Flash Heal closer, in that they're the instant "omg don't die" thing, when it comes to raid healing.

Or preventing large spike damage. Whether or not it can kill someone independently is irrelevant, because from what we've seen, large spike damage can trigger side by side with something else that can kill you.

Shields have their place, and yes they could be beefed up a little bit. But they don't need to outpace Renew to do so, when they both fill different roles, for different reasons.