If you're against dispersion, whats your reason for it?

[Daggy1111]

And Zealotry isn't a cooldown at all, infact using it has no noticable effect on your resources or DPS in general.

Earthquake requires channeling and does physical damage.

See I actually Like earthquake. Yeah I wish they put something cool there, but it is still something I would get. Same thing with dispersion. Its cool, its something I always get, but it is not a dps change and is not a large part of the class. Its still good though.

[Ztrata]

Has anybody expressed a real reason why dispersion is a bad 31 point talent other than "Other classes get better" or "It's not damage so it's bad"? Those aren't qualifying concerns.

If it was lower in the tree you all wouldn't pick it up? Is that the beef with this talent?

I'm going to sound like I want to have my cake and eat it too now, but so be it. If dispersion were lower down the tree, I'd probably get it, unless it was buried under talents like imp psychic scream. (silence, you remain forever out of reach)

That said, to go back to my previous post if the 31 pointer was something like shadow form, VT or something comparable pretty much any other 31 point this wouldn't even be an issue.

For example: a prot warrior would have to be off his rocker to wanna give up shock wave for either sweeping strikes or death wish. Heck, using my earlier example, who would wanna give up VT or shadow form for power infusion? On the other hand, Dispersion vs Power Infusion (Balancing and mana issues aside) that's not an easy choice, and therein lies my problem with it's position as the 31 point talent.

This all said, if what masteryuri and other have been saying about the cataclysm beta is true and we're forced to keep dispersion on CD to avoid going OOM I'll be very frustrated, as it would cripple the utility half of the talent. Even back in vanilla, Evocate was only an 11 point talent.

[Elothie]

at 70k mana and 20600 base the spell costs are not that high considering you have shadowfiend,15% crit with blue/quest gear (3500int+1%base+5%from crit rating) and SW spam under 25%hp (and more mana ,another 5680,if you are taking aoe/spike dmg) I really can't see us needing dispersion.It's not logic to switch dispersion for VT either as this will only make lvling more dif and add nothing at the end lvls but I would like something in return for the auto silence we lose.Basickly I suggest this: Glyph of Dispersion (prime or major):Your Dispersion no longer decreases damage taking but instead increases your damage done by 10% after the spell completes it's full duration.I know pvpers will go mad about this (since dispersion cd is back at 2min) but this would really help making it suck less for pve and somehow boost a little our dps.I like Sin&Pun as a 31pt more tbh (into 1 talent ofc).

[Eittri]

It's so much better that VT ISN'T the 31 pt because it makes levelling that much less of a hell since you get it earlier. Some classes have awful output skills till they get the 31 pt, spriest gets VT earlier. Quit complaining.

[Deleted]

And Zealotry isn't a cooldown at all, infact using it has no noticable effect on your resources or DPS in general.

Are you serious? Zealotry lets you use a 3 Holy Power TV every 4,5 sec (not counting Sanctity of Battle talent) ----> DPS boost because you normally can Templar's Verdict with 3 Holy Power every 13,5 sec.

Earthquake requires channeling and does physical damage.

Does it scale with spell power? ---> Yes. Then it's irrelevant what kind of damage it does.

[Ztrata]

To clarify, since it seems there's been some confusion, I'm not suggesting that VT and dispersion should switch places, I was merely using it as an example to illustrate my point.

[zoldren]

Why am I against it? Because you can use it while mounted.

[danoob77]

Zealotry, Ardent Defender, Power Word: Barrier, and Earthquake are also often considered to be really underwhelming by the super hard mode elitists who are bent on maxing a single target dps build. I haven't followed zealotry recently it may be fixed, Ardent Defender is fine but people miss the super good way it was before, Power Word: Barrier and Earthquake are fun but many argue will not be useful and we won't really know until we see what raids and hard modes look like at 85. I think that is where dispersion fits in, you won't know how good and useful it is until you are raiding at 85. In the end I like the talent, and I think enough people do that it'll stay. Even the people who are griping about it to no end are taking it.

[Deleted]

Even the people who are griping about it to no end are taking it.

Of course we are. There isn't any other choice in the Shadow tree.

[Kelesti]

Are you serious? Zealotry lets you use a 3 Holy Power TV every 4,5 sec (not counting Sanctity of Battle talent) ----> DPS boost because you normally can Templar's Verdict with 3 Holy Power every 13,5 sec.

Except interfering with Divine Purpose procs, Hand of Light procs, etc, it actually results in less DPS than normal. Run some tests. It's been done already.

Does it scale with spell power? ---> Yes. Then it's irrelevant what kind of damage it does.

Tell the Shaman that. But by that same logic, your Dispersion scales with your mana pool so you can use it less often thus having higher damage output in total.

Without giving Shadow Priests a) A new spell, or B) Making a baseline spell shadow exclusive, or shadow "better", what else would you put there that doesn't screw over levelling Priests even further?

[Deleted]

Except interfering with Divine Purpose procs, Hand of Light procs, etc, it actually results in less DPS than normal. Run some tests. It's been done already.

I can understand its interferences with those procs, however It can't result in a loss of DPS because you are not forced to Crusader Strike every 4.5 sec for it, use TV and just don't do anything else. Nevertheless Templar's Verdict is underpowered and that's why a full TV every 4.5 sec isn't appealing as a 31 point talent.

Tell the Shaman that. But by that same logic, your Dispersion scales with your mana pool so you can use it less often thus having higher damage output in total.

Earthquake is actually a DPS ability, Evoc...Dispersion is not. I'm not denying its efficiency as a mana cd, instead I'm saying that Dispersion as mana cd doesn't fit at the bottom of a talent tree.

[Kaesebrezen]

at 70k mana and 20600 base the spell costs are not that high considering you have shadowfiend,15% crit with blue/quest gear (3500int+1%base+5%from crit rating) and SW spam under 25%hp

Since the boss starts at under 25% hp. Am i right? (We're not counting Vaelastrasz here)

With 70k mana i was oom with Archangel used, dispersion on 45 sec CD (unglyphed) and Sfiend still on CD. And it was not in a timeframe a raidboss would've been close to 25%. Dispersion is a mana CD. Get over it.

Without giving Shadow Priests a) A new spell, or B) Making a baseline spell shadow exclusive, or shadow "better", what else would you put there that doesn't screw over levelling Priests even further?

Our terrible mastery could be turned into a talent... there are many options for a non-spell replacement as the 31 point talent.

I'm not denying its efficiency as a mana cd, instead I'm saying that Dispersion as mana cd doesn't fit at the bottom of a talent tree.

So true...

[Elothie]

My last post about dispersion I like dispersion as a talent and I think it's very useful in pvp and less in pve.Problem is that a mana cd the above poster (who I guess is in beta) claims to be dispersion can't fit into a 31pt talent because it's too simple...it doesn't show any skills (specially in pve it just forgives bad playing or playing ''against'' the encounter tactics see fester for example).Specially with the new raid damage design (no big damage spikes) no other 31pt talent will be used less frequently than dispersion (taken you will use it for damage reduction) and time will come fast when you won't even need it for mana regeneration.Many shadowpriests including me and most of the sp.com ones are concerned about it but as long as people keep believing that blizzard has treated this spell as it deserves (and as a 31pt talent) changes will most likely not come.

[Portice]

I like dispersion and i think it definitely belongs in the Shadow tree, but not as the end tree skill. Shadow is a dps class and i think that the ending skill should help define your class just as much as the level 10 skill and dmg reduction with mana regen doesn not define a dps spec.

[pestra]

It sometimes prevented me from killing spriests in my first kidney. Thats my reason.

[Thrayne]

It sometimes prevented me from killing spriests in my first kidney. Thats my reason.

If you kill spriests in one kidney, they are really bad.

[Suikun]

Forgive me for saying, but whomever had the idea of swapping Mind Spike and Dispersion I think was really on to something. Mind Spike would have little-to-no usefulness outside of Shadow, and it's a defining, exciting, DPS increasing ability. Problem solved! Furthermore, this makes it so that we can all have our cake and eat it too. Those who like Disp can have Disp. Those of us who don't like it for one reason or another, can have it without feeling like they've wasted a valuable resource on such a "blah" talent.

I know first hand the usefulness of Dispersion (wiping on Sindy for many nights means I've learned to appreciate it's value with Unchained Magic), and I know that, in essence, it's a very good spell on it's own. However, I find myself also agreeing that it doesn't have much of a spot in the 31pt talent spot. I've read all the posts and seen all the arguments for it, but I'll go ahead and admit that it doesn't have the "Wow!" factor I hope for in a 31 pt talent. Call me immature, greedy, and/or various other names, but personally I'd trade a new spell and the same DPS just so I have something to look at and clap my hands excitedly.

Will it happen? Probably not. But hey, one can hope, right?

[pestra]

If you kill spriests in one kidney, they are really bad.

Either that, or myself, my spriest, and our resto shaman were all dpsing it with hero up, and it neglected to hit it?

[Thrayne]

Either that, or myself, my spriest, and our resto shaman were all dpsing it with hero up, and it neglected to hit it?

Because 3vs1 PvP is a viable argument point

[Deleted]

The subject was, without going into too much detail:

If you're against dispersion, what's your reason for it?

I'm not against dispersion, very useful in both PVP and PVE. I love the ability, and I go "FUCK YEAH" when i have a boss hugging me on his last few couple hundred thousand hit points while my dots are ticking and everyone else is burning everything on them. It can be a wipe saver.

In regards to the "I usually only want mana regen or mitigation, but rarely both" I can honestly tell you that that's what WoW is about - decisions, based upon your knowledge. Nothing against dispersion. And yes, it's fit for final tier considering we explode into millions of tiny shadow particles, how much more shadowy than that can we get? :O