Looks like Ret's numbers pass is starting...

[Thumos]

As you can see in the latest beta patch:

Exorcism base damage increased by 50%.
Two-handed weapon specialization is now 20% increased damage instead of only 10%.

These are pretty significant buffs. I'm not in beta, so if someone could report on whether or not our PvE performance is starting to approach other class, that would be great.

Hopefully a PvP pass is coming as well.

[Requital]

As you can see in the latest beta patch:

Exorcism base damage increased by 50%.
Two-handed weapon specialization is now 20% increased damage instead of only 10%.

These are pretty significant buffs. I'm not in beta, so if someone could report on whether or not our PvE performance is starting to approach other class, that would be great.

Hopefully a PvP pass is coming as well.

We can barely keep up with tanks, were not the only class down there though. Warriors, Shadow Priests and Combat Rogues are in a bad spot. Ele Shaman/Locks/Mages/Hunters/Druids/DK's all fine or even a little high. Our issue is still Holy Damage we don't do enough of it and if we are going to be left without it Inquisition still needs changed.

My Heroic Stonecore run, There is AE so the Mage has inflated damage however as you can see I was attempted to assist with the AE with Divine Drizzle.

These numbers are before the buff I'll run another Heroic after that patch goes live on beta so we have some comparison.

So last night we decided to go and run a heroic. So with 2 Premades and myself and the Healer and Mage who leveled to 85 decided to give Stonecore Heroic a run. Now obviously these numbers are very low yes I know numbers need tuned don't tell me hey aren't tuned I know this is still just an example of where we are.




Total Damage after the first boss, This boss on Heroic is no joke very hard we spent 2 hours on it not only because it eas hard but also because we took the type of people you might see in a pug we didn't just get all the OP classes and run it.



Should be no question of Mage damage it's fine always has been seems it always will be.



I love losing to the tank makes me feel good. Tanks have talents that create a crap load of damage and some really big hits this will have to be fixed before Arena starts or it's going to be messy. The Protadin had a 52K Shield of Righteous hit.


Well I don't know what to say about Ret is it just a numbers game? I don't think so but we will see. On a fight where a lot is going on I can see Inquisition being a pain in the ass to maintain just more important shit going on. Our Seal damage is crazy low probably to low imo.


S Priests obviously bad shape as well I can't say much about them other then Life Grip is pretty funny to watch and can save someones life.



Overall most classes have 3 Abilities that cover the majority of their damage seems it's still the same way our 3 have just changed drastically. I should say as well there are adds for this fight so the Mage does have some inflated damage due to it.

[kenn9530]

i think all casters are in pretty good shape at the mo as i have played my boomkin/mage and SP and can do around 9k dps on a target dummy so they are all pretty good at the mo on the ptr at least at lvl 80 in around 251/264 gear so hopefully with the buff to ret it may bring it back to what it used to be

[Badpaladin]

Do not like. This is indicative of them feeling mechanics are coming to a close, which is pretty shitty.

[Requital]

i think all casters are in pretty good shape at the mo as i have played my boomkin/mage and SP and can do around 9k dps on a target dummy so they are all pretty good at the mo on the ptr at least at lvl 80 in around 251/264 gear so hopefully with the buff to ret it may bring it back to what it used to be

Shadow Priests are definitely not in the best shape on beta they need some help as well.

---------- Post added 2010-09-30 at 10:53 PM ----------

Do not like. This is indicative of them feeling mechanics are coming to a close, which is pretty shitty.

I'm pretty sure we won't see anymore Ret mechanic changes until after the first tier of raiding at the soonest if at all. While I don't like it because Zealotry and Inquisition are both complete trash we are stuck with them.

[Thumos]

Do not like. This is indicative of them feeling mechanics are coming to a close, which is pretty shitty.

Yeah these flat dps increases are indicating that they are happy with the general new mechanics

[ragingsoul]

at lvl 80 with a 3sec CS rotation, I'm getting 6.3k dps without shadowmourne. it's quite stable and a nice flow at this haste lvl.
but that at lvl 85 is not doable at the moment, so it means the rotation is gonna feel a lot more messed up.
also, I was running into mana problems this this kinda of haste (32% I think with judgment buff) since I was almost only doing CS, TV or exo.
i guess it's bad to take this kind of habit, since it's not what we will use at lvl 85. But even if crusader strike is a bit boring to do every 2 attacks, you have to choose what you're gonna do. Like sometimes, I was holding off art of war proc for more than 3 gcd, if you put CS and TV before.

[Autumn xD]

-Lots of Graphs & such-

I dont know if you should be doing Numbers Tests on the first boss in Stonecore, as it going under and all the adds and crap gives too much variables for the end result, as seen with the OP Fire Mage.

All that comes to mind at the moment for a more balanced test would be Beauty.
Of course, end mechanics aren't always going to be tank and spank, but it provides a more balanced single-target view.

[ragingsoul]

Yeah these flat dps increases are indicating that they are happy with the general new mechanics

I don't like the thing too but I must say reforging to haste to have a 3 sec CS feels a LOT better. you increase the minimum holy power income by 66% (every 3sec instead of 4.5sec).
The difference is huge, and doesn't feel random at all. You always have something to do, no dead gcd, not even using consecration, HW barly.

[Requital]

I dont know if you should be doing Numbers Tests on the first boss in Stonecore, as it going under and all the adds and crap gives too much variables for the end result, as seen with the OP Fire Mage.

All that comes to mind at the moment for a more balanced test would be Beauty.
Of course, end mechanics aren't always going to be tank and spank, but it provides a more balanced single-target view.

Can't control what my group decides to do and some numbers are better then none, But even with my amount of Divine Storm it shows we are lacking. The numbers aren't posted to show we aren't number one they are posted so people can have an idea of where we are in pretty much full 333 blues.

[kenn9530]

SPs are better with the cata changes than they are now as my dps has gone up at least 2k so i dont know why you think SPs are doing bad, you cant judge a class until you see someone who knows what they are doing with it at least.

at the moment on the ptr i can get 5-6k dps on my ret with some tank gear to replace so hopefully with the 10% extra damage in weapons it will do a lil better. At lvl 85 all dps classes should be around the same in numbers or at least thats what blizz is trying to do so hopefully it all balances out in the end.

the logs you have shown requital are very low dps numbers if its a lvl 85 hc instance as now at lvl 80 thats what the numbers look like now on the ptr.

[Requital]

SPs are better with the cata changes than they are now as my dps has gone up at least 2k so i dont know why you think SPs are doing bad, you cant judge a class until you see someone who knows what they are doing with it at least.

at the moment on the ptr i can get 5-6k dps on my ret with some tank gear to replace so hopefully with the 10% extra damage in weapons it will do a lil better. At lvl 85 all dps classes should be around the same in numbers or at least thats what blizz is trying to do so hopefully it all balances out in the end.

the logs you have shown requital are very low dps numbers if its a lvl 85 hc instance as now at lvl 80 thats what the numbers look like now on the ptr.

That is an 85 Heroic with a group of players that all know how to play. 80 PTR vs 85 Heroic are 100% different. While you can get the hit cap you can't get the expertise cap the game is different @ 85 then 80 that is why I said all these level 80 DPS PTR tests mean absolutely nothing.

[Deleted]

That is an 85 Heroic with a group of players that all know how to play. 80 PTR vs 85 Heroic are 100% different. While you can get the hit cap you can't get the expertise cap the game is different @ 85 then 80 that is why I said all these level 80 DPS PTR tests mean absolutely nothing.

^^ This! Ret dmg is nothing to write home about. A well geared and skilled ret paladin should not be losing DPS race to a Paladin tank.

[Requital]

^^ This! Ret dmg is nothing to write home about. A well geared and skilled ret paladin should not be losing DPS race to a Paladin tank.

All tanks are doing incredible damage i think it goes DK -> War -> Pal in terms of the damage they do. I've seen our MT hit 65K Shield Slams because of the AP buff when taking damage granted if you recall during early wotlk it was the same damage was to high and they had to modify it I'm sure we will see the same again.

But at 85 Ret is definitely not worth writing home about, Beta is down ATM patching I hope I'll go run another Heroic and we can get a comparison as to the damage being done with a 10% buff to 2 handed weapon damage melee might turn out to be our top or near top damage if that is the case Expertise will become very important to us.

However I'll also have a new weapon which is quite a bit higher soon as Archaeology is nice to me!

[Ronark]

Im still worried about Inquisition- The 2 handed buff will increase CS, TV, and White swings, FURTHER reducing our Holy portion.

[Requital]

Yup as it is right now I don't feel there is anything they can do to make Inquisition useful except make TV/DS Holy based which would be broken in PvP so that won't work. They need to make it effect all damage and then do something about that horrible talent Zealotry we got.

[Banzubie]

Im wondering if the best way to fix our damage is going back to the old model of seal damage.

Because right now Im not sure what else they can do without causing mass QQ.

[Badpaladin]

Im still worried about Inquisition- The 2 handed buff will increase CS, TV, and White swings, FURTHER reducing our Holy portion.

Indeed, 5% more of our damage is now physical, making inquisition that much less attractive of an ability.

[Lotharion]

Im wondering if the best way to fix our damage is going back to the old model of seal damage.

Because right now Im not sure what else they can do without causing mass QQ.

Call me stupid, but I never liked a 30 minute passive buff doing 50% of my overall damage.

[Deleted]

See now when i first dinged 80 on my warlock, and starting doing lvl 80 heriocs.

I had mostly lvl 70 gear couple of blues from instances, and yes my dps was bad, struggling to maintain 3k dps was annoying. Espcially when newly dinged tanks were doing more dps then me. but its always liek this. DPS gear scales dps faster than tank gear, so there dps will start roughly on par.

More so in heriocs as they are continually aoe tanking mobs, in some small form while dps focus fire stuff down or alos joi in the aoe. Also Tanks pull the mobs, so they hits the mobs earlier into combat. so therefore will end up probs highe ron damage done aswel.

If youve tanked dungeons with a vaguely decent speed you should understand this, as 5k dps in proper prot gear is pretty easy to maintain at 80, i would expect something similar at 85.