Flexible Raid Lock System in 4.0.1

[Seref]

What about raids with optional/multiple bosses? Like VoA?

<Mod Edit: Please read. This is for ICC & RS only in patch 4.0 no other raids until Cata hits.>

[Mowse]

Its for what? Like the next month or two? It's obsolete content/gear at this point anyways.

Who cares about gear? I want my drake :3

As main tank I can't just say "screw you" to the rest of the guild that wants to keep trudging forward in 25 man for useless gear. This is why I find it unfair. It's going to be awesome in Cata...but not for right now

[Puro]

I lol'd, more carebear progress ftw.
If we could do what we enjoy then give back 40man raids, a lot of people enjoyed it but it was removed.
Fix what is wrong before you fix what is working, like let's say.. AB fence?

[Master Guns]

Honestly, this is great. Would I rather have 2 separate instances, 10 and 25 man that I could do both per week? Sure. But that's not how Blizzard wants us to play the game, and we are going to have to accept that.
This is a step ahead though, giving us more flexibility. It's really not that difficult to understand if you actually read the wall of text. It actually is pretty nice.

[furydeath]

So wait two different raids both with different loot but you can only do one. How is that Flexible?

[Explosion_Rex]

So wait two different raids both with different loot but you can only do one. How is that Flexible?

Old content is old.

[delcatty]

the really reason they are do this now is to see how players will use it b4 cata is out and make change where needed.

[Rezman]

Again this change is for the worse. My example:

Our guild has a weekly 25man ICC. Several of the members have been working on their 10man drake achievements over the past 2-3 weeks. Because of this change they will 1) Have to abandon their 10man drake runs and wait till after Cata is out OR 2) drop out of the guild 25man which we are struggling with low attendance as it is already.

[Halicia]

What about raids with optional/multiple bosses? Like VoA?

this change would have rocked for VoA, would have been able to do all the optional and/or easier bosses first with no fear of being saved to a wipe on the 'good boss'.

I can only wonder if the raids will be substantial enough to really call for a system like this though. 5-6 bosses isnt much, with or without trash.

I guess it should ease the worry of pugging into a bad raid that wipes on the 2nd or 3rd boss.
The changes may also make it more 'acceptable' for raidleaders to boot low-performers one or two bosses in.
"So what ? you can still finish the raid if you want... just not with us..."
Especially in heroic, the person booted still has the option of completing the raid on normal mode, while you replace him and continue on hardmodes.

[Izenhart]

So basically it's all useless.

/care about you being able to freely swap raids in Normal mode, just like WotLK, normal modes will be forgotten in a matter of weeks to swap to Heroic modes, and there is where basically you'll be locked to your raid just like you're now.

You just have the possibility to back up to a Normal mode raid pug if you weren't in the first 10/25..

[Razia]

Again this change is for the worse. My example:

Our guild has a weekly 25man ICC. Several of the members have been working on their 10man drake achievements over the past 2-3 weeks. Because of this change they will 1) Have to abandon their 10man drake runs and wait till after Cata is out OR 2) drop out of the guild 25man which we are struggling with low attendance as it is already.

Too bad the game doesn't revolve around you, sorry. Your 2) is a good example on how to take advantage of this. Break down into two 10 man raids. Continue to work on your achievements. If you get the raid size you need, reform into a 25 and continue on the same spot you stopped your 10 man.

[Kiro]

MMmm. Tears of 25 players upset that they won't have better gear than better players only doing 10-man content anymore since many 25 man guilds will dissolve, thus they won't get carried to gear anymore since there's a far greater margin of error in 25mans. Enjoy your off-set pieces from grinding dailies.

[Rezman]

Too bad the game doesn't revolve around you, sorry. Your 2) is a good example on how to take advantage of this. Break down into two 10 man raids. Continue to work on your achievements. If you get the raid size you need, reform into a 25 and continue on the same spot you stopped your 10 man.

I already have the achievements as does many others from the 25man. There are about 6-8 that do not and they are working on their drake achievements. This new system is doing nothing but limiting peoples choices. They can still implement part of this new system without sharing 10/25man lockouts.

Also we are getting the people for 25man. It's just borderline. We often run 1-2 short for an hour till more are able to get online.

[Sparkymisslecat]

Does anyone else see this getting slightly complicated when recruiting people for raids? especially people who didn't bother to understand it?

Yes. This change simultaneously makes things simpler, yet somehow more complicated at the same time. The link feature will be useful, but I can see a lot of people not understanding it.

[PetersenIII]

I wish I worked at Bliz. The simple version of this would be "Each player can only loot each boss once per week regardless of raid size or difficulty." That is the solution I've been suggesting since day 1. This would allow people to raid with whatever friends they want, whenever they want. And never HAVE to raid more than once for the sake of min/maxing progression. They're half way there. Maybe someday they'll figure it out.

Wow. That's a brilliant idea, but I would guess it is 'too hard' to implement.

[TotalFreak]

YES! Good job Blizzard! Looking forward to this!

[Deleted]

Wow. That's a brilliant idea, but I would guess it is 'too hard' to implement.

It's a useless idea, because that would mean a good group could farm a boss endlessly, selling the 10th spot and all loot to baddies. Do we want that?

[Jasyn]

Viva la 10mans!

[Cirque]

It's a useless idea, because that would mean a good group could farm a boss endlessly, selling the 10th spot and all loot to baddies. Do we want that?

Why? There's ways to avoid that. My question specifically is, how will this Flexible Raid System work when you want to join a raid that's doing a boss you've already done that week. Wouldn't you be able to? I don't think we are - correct me if wrong. The way to fix this is to indeed allow a player to do a boss more times a week without it having drop loot for you, if, and only if, the group leader's raid you joined does not have the same raid ID as yours (even if that actual ID becomes invisible to players), and if there are no more than 3 out of 10 players or 7 out of 25 players (random numbers are completely random) in that same group with the same raid ID as yours. In this case your raid log would still say, for example, "Saurfang killed", even though the pug you just joined is still at gunship. You'd do gunship and saurfang again but receive no loot or points from it, but then be able to proceed to fester with that pug.

That said, guilds have always sold spots and they will continue to do so. Do you honestly think good guilds right now are still after the loot? Of course not, they're taking advantage of the current status of WOW and the possible hibernating status of their guild and just selling spots (and thus heroic loot). I know on my old server, when WOTLK was released, our server's top guild was selling undying runs and the like, too.

[Jasyn]

Why? There's ways to avoid that. My question specifically is, how will this Flexible Raid System work when you want to join a raid that's doing a boss you've already done that week. Wouldn't you be able to? I don't think we are - correct me if wrong. The way to fix this is to indeed allow a player to do a boss more times a week without it having drop loot for you, if, and only if, the group leader's raid you joined does not have the same raid ID as yours (even if that actual ID becomes invisible to players), and if there are no more than 3 out of 10 players or 7 out of 25 players (random numbers are completely random) in that same group with the same raid ID as yours. In this case your raid log would still say, for example, "Saurfang killed", even though the pug you just joined is still at gunship. You'd do gunship and saurfang again but receive no loot or points from it, but then be able to proceed to fester with that pug.

That said, guilds have always sold spots and they will continue to do so. Do you honestly think good guilds right now are still after the loot? Of course not, they're taking advantage of the current status of WOW and the possible hibernating status of their guild and just selling spots (and thus heroic loot). I know on my old server, when WOTLK was released, our server's top guild was selling undying runs and the like, too.

I was kind of thinking of it working like this too, but it seems too much like a band-aid. Good thought, but it would be tricky to implement fairly.