Flexible Raid Lock System in 4.0.1

[Kainara]

Pretty neat except for the heroic changes.

[Secret81]

Yeah the heroic changes are a bit weird

[Deleted]

the main problem i see with this is what if your in a 25m heroic run clear say 9/12 bosses on heroic before calling it a night. the next night 2 people dont show and you want to continue with heroic but cant 23 man heroics like LK and have no need for normal bosses then you would be screwed. also means trying to sub people in and out to get specific gear is gone should fix this one part imo

Err that's exactly what its like TODAY doing heroic raiding.

Simple version for those struggling :

1) 10s/25s and 10hc/25hc are merged and you can only kill a boss once a week

2) Heroic modes stay exactly the same as now - everyone who does a heroic raid gets locked to that raid id

3) Normal mode bosses no longer have raid id locking. You are locked only to the bosses killed in the latest raid you run. eg: If you join a pug on Putricide and they wipe and ppl leave you are not raid locked to a fail pug and can try that boss again with a different raid group.

4) You can switch between 10s and 25s and in Cataclysm the loot will be the same regardless of raid size just 25s will drop more items per boss.

Its dead easy to understand.

It also means guilds who struggle to do 25s can run 10s instead and not worry that on the next night 8 from raid A show up and 8 from raid B show up and the other 5 online are the wrong class. Now you can swap people between raid groups at will on normal mode so everyone gets max possible raiding that week you just start the raid on the next high at the last boss killed by the furthest progressed group.

For ICC pugs its great. Currently if you are pugging normal you can get a group that does 4/12 and then ppl fake DC. Now you can continue the next night and start with those 4 bosses down and join a raid where others were in a different fail pug that only did 4/12. ie: decent people who have struggled to get their alts into good raids will be able to raid more than one night a week as a pug disbanding means you can still raid again the next night. Currently a pug disbanding means no more raiding for that week.

It also means if you go for the first boss and the pug is a nightmare you can leave and join another group for boss 2 onwards. You aren't locked to only having done one boss that week due to the current raid id system.

[godded]

Naxx was fail? Bringing naxx to the public was awesome. Blizz always win you moron, and you will always be blizzards little puppet

Making naxx the piss easy piece of shit instance it is now had absolutely nothing to do with awesomeness.


Btw if I'm still farming Shadowfrost shards, this patch is going to screw me on my Bane of the Fallen King right?

E.g.: I'm farming my Shards in a 25man GDKP raid (does 9/12hc rest normal), and even if I drop out before LK, I won't be able to join my 10man group on LK hc, right? Since i don't kill Sindra and PP on heroic, and even if i did as soon as i'm saved to a 25man heroic I can't join a 10man heroic.

I mean i think the system is great, but only if 10man and 25man loot are the same, but I doubt blizzard will allow Shadowfrost shards to drop in 10man ... though I would find it fair if they dropped in 10man heroic, cause that would be the only reason you can't join a 25man normal group.

[Plutarch78]

I like this change; even though I don't PuG anymore.

[Argroth]

So they kill 10 man raids for large guilds and 25 man raids for smaller guilds. Cheap out by making the exact same loot for both, share the lockouts so end-gamers have less options with raids then they implement a system that would have made sense from day 1 (i.e. not having the exact same 25 people share a lockout, but rather a personal lockout of loot per character per boss).

And we are supposed to be happy about all these lazy and long overdue changes?

[Deleted]

So will ICC25 loot drop in ICC10 when 4.01 hits?

The flexible raidlock sounds like a bad idea to me. So you have killed the first 3 bosses in a bad pug, then you need to find a raid that has killed exactly those 3 bosses? How is that helpful.

NO!!! That isn't how it works. You can join any normal raid who has killed AT LEAST the first 3 bosses if the only raid you can find has killed 4 bosses you can just continue from there. You just miss out on the boss they have already downed. However it means you can raid more than one night a week in a pug.

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 11:49 PM ----------

Once again another awful change to cater to casuals that complain. Thanks for ruining the game even more blizzard.

Actually, thank you ACTIVISION. I knew you would ruin this game even worse.

This REALLY helps guilds as well as casuals no more bugger we have 2 ppl missing tonight we can't raid. Instead you split into two 10s continue the raid and reform the 25 the next night.

[skylla05]

I don't know what's the biggest failure of blizzard... Naxxramas 2.0 or this

The biggest failures are people like you that do nothing but bitch and moan about the game, yet still give Blizzard your money and act like you are owed something.

Don't like it? Quit. Your e-friends probably won't care what happens to you.

[Deleted]

Nah, this system is great.. explanations were a bit confusing, as I'm unsure how they actually set your raid ID if you join a raid, does all kills spread to your ID now? Meaning if somebody only did Sindragosa, now nobody can do it if you kill Marrowgar?

You won't have a raid ID on normal mode only a list of bosses you have killed that week. If someone has killed Sindragosa then that raid starts at LK you cannot kill earlier bosses if someone in raid has killed later ones.

But the issue here is that they are introducting it for ICC, without any explanation, and at max a 2 weeks warning. Not only do people now have 10 and 25 man groups, but they are also working to get specific items, doing specific achievements, etc.

Is 10 man difficulty going to be increased, will it drop 25 man loot now? does your 10 and 25 man achievements merge?

I mean, wtf, leave ICC alone and start this with the new raids, what's the point of introducing it now?

So many unanswered questions.

Point of introducing it now is testing of course.

For your other questions just think for a minute. When you are in a raid its either a 10 or its a 25. Therefore for patch 4.0 before Cata if you are in a 10 then 10 man loot will drop and you will get 10 man achievements if you are in a 25 then 25 man loot will drop and you will get 25man achievements. SIMPLES.

NO CHANGES TO LOOT OR DIFFICULTLY OR ANYTHING just abolishing the idea of a raid id for normal modes.

[lookerr]

ok, so after 14 pages

scenario: currently run in a 10 man guild and pug 25s - we are working on ICC HMs - so we are able to continue doing HM and normal modes within the same run (such as HM Marrow, Lady, lootship, normal Saur, HM fest, put, prof, norm princes, etc - correct? this simply affects our ability to do pug 25s - correct?

[Zowi]

'Over Complicated' doesn't do this justice.

[Deleted]

If it takes such a wall of text to explain this system and it's still not clear how it works, it might be a good idea to go back to the drawing board and come up with a better system.

Its incredibly simple you just need to actually be able to read and understand simple concepts. However most people go OMG wall of text I'm too thick where's the TL;DR. Try actually READING and UNDERSTANDING you'll go a lot further in life if you do.

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 11:59 PM ----------

'Over Complicated' doesn't do this justice.

It's pathetically simple. You are locked to a boss not to a raid. Honestly some people are just WAY too thick.

[Deleted]

Since i have to raid with my guild in a 10 man group, no 25 anymore for me, THANK YOU (NOT).
This is hard for me to describe my anger to loose the only raid in which i need something,
and being unable to complete shadowmourne quest thanks to that stupid decision.
Cataclysm better be really good...

[Deleted]

ok, so after 14 pages

scenario: currently run in a 10 man guild and pug 25s - we are working on ICC HMs - so we are able to continue doing HM and normal modes within the same run (such as HM Marrow, Lady, lootship, normal Saur, HM fest, put, prof, norm princes, etc - correct? this simply affects our ability to do pug 25s - correct?

NOTHING changes with your current heroic raids. You are correct that it affects your pug 25s as you can only kill a boss once a week now regardless of raid size or difficultly.

---------- Post added 2010-10-02 at 12:01 AM ----------

Since i have to raid with my guild in a 10 man group, no 25 anymore for me, THANK YOU (NOT).
This is hard for me to describe my anger to loose the only raid in which i need something,
and being unable to complete shadowmourne quest thanks to that stupid decision.
Cataclysm better be really good...

Seriously mate your quest green will be better than that anything in ICC in a few weeks time, its no big loss.

[pomterri]

MEEEEH. I did not like these changes.
Now I have only 2 more weeks to boost some lame guys who are willing to pay for 10 man LK hc Boost and 11/12 hc too.
It is like -12k gold per week to me and my boost team

[darkwarrior42]

For anyone who wants to know why the new system is being implemented without changing loot or achievements... look at the number of comments by people both here and on the official forums that just don't understand even the basic concept of the system, despite having a crystal clear explanation with multiple examples.

Blizzard needs to implement this system well before the Cataclysm raids go live, just so that people have a chance to figure it out. Because explanations are, sadly, not enough

(Not really trying to insult people here, but I do wonder if people even read the entirety of these posts and then think about what they read before starting to complain...)

[Fillerbunny]

what the hell, so now i´m forced to choose just ONE raid per week. Some of us, even casuals, do raid 10 and 25mans weekly.

[Spoiledkid]

So no more 10man HC LK kills once the patch goes live.

I don't understand why they won't allow players kill bosses in 10 and 25man before Cata hits. They should just implement the "ID per boss" part and leave everything else like it is now (handling 10/25man as different raids) until the release of Cataclysm.

[Deleted]

Once you a do heroic, you're then locked to doing heroics in that raid size.

Wrong. Heroics work EXACTLY AS NOW. ie: you have a raid lock ID. You can still kill bosses on normal mode if your guild clears the heroic. The example in the text was exactly that!!!

---------- Post added 2010-10-02 at 12:21 AM ----------

I dont get it.. what happens If I have killed all bosses except for the first boss and I join a raid where they are doing all bosses..
Will i be kicked when they go at boss 2?
Or can i stay and help but not loot?

If you have killed boss 2 you are also marked as having done boss 1 for that week. So if you have cleared the instance there is nothing left for you to clear. Thus you cannot join a pug to kill another boss. This is identical to how it is today, if you join a group at 2nd boss you cannot join a group for boss 1 today.

[Deleted]

Seriously mate your quest green will be better than that anything in ICC in a few weeks time, its no big loss.

Don't tell me how i should take this, it's not your call.

I loose a raid and i don't like that new change, i express an opinion, comments are made for this.
They want feedback, this is my feedback: i'm upset, this sucks.
There's at least two more month and a half before Cataclysm, we are already bored about wotlk,
and with this change, they're pushing players to the exit.

I have to say that i'm not against the "flexible raid id" in cataclysm.
But i's a mistake to apply that change on ICC and whithout the loot change that HAVE to be with it.