Flexible Raid Lock System in 4.0.1

[Mabel]

Once again another awful change to cater to casuals that complain. Thanks for ruining the game even more blizzard.

Actually, thank you ACTIVISION. I knew you would ruin this game even worse.

[Mowse]

25 men Raid won't die until Cata will arrive simply because 25 men still drop higher level items than 10 men (talking about ICC and RS). For all the ppl that hoped to get 264 ilevel gears from 10 men i'm sorry for you.

I don't believe that is what people complaining about 10 mans are talking about. I know for me specifically, being my guild's tank, this means I will not be able to get complete my heroic 10 man achievements if I want to keep helping the guild progress in 25..

[Rezzyk]

So will ICC25 loot drop in ICC10 when 4.01 hits?

The flexible raidlock sounds like a bad idea to me. So you have killed the first 3 bosses in a bad pug, then you need to find a raid that has killed exactly those 3 bosses? How is that helpful.

No, killed -at least- those bosses. As long as the bosses you have killed are dead in the raid you are trying to join, you can go in. You just can't kill the same boss twice in a week.

[Spotnick]

Nah, this system is great.. explanations were a bit confusing, as I'm unsure how they actually set your raid ID if you join a raid, does all kills spread to your ID now? Meaning if somebody only did Sindragosa, now nobody can do it if you kill Marrowgar?

But the issue here is that they are introducting it for ICC, without any explanation, and at max a 2 weeks warning. Not only do people now have 10 and 25 man groups, but they are also working to get specific items, doing specific achievements, etc.

Is 10 man difficulty going to be increased, will it drop 25 man loot now? does your 10 and 25 man achievements merge?

I mean, wtf, leave ICC alone and start this with the new raids, what's the point of introducing it now?

So many unanswered questions.

[Olumdril]

Heroic/Normal division makes zero sense.

"Here, have this awesome system and no, you can't use it if you're good enough to do heroics"

yay?

^^ this.

Why wouldn't a guild good enough to do heroics benefit from being able to split the 25-man raiding team into 2 10-man teams when they only get 20-21 signups one night? Isn't 10-man and 25-man supposed to be equally difficult? What, then, does it matter to make it behave in the same way that the normal system works?

[Rezzyk]

I guess my other question is.. are the bosses killed based on the raid leader? So say, I'm in a 25man, only do the first wing of ICC because I'm busy the rest of the week. BUT my guild, who started in that same "raid id" in the old system, clears the place. That doesn't matter, because it's specific for me? And I can either join a raid that has at least the first wing dead, or start a raid and since it's my raid the first wing is cleared?

[Smartie]

So from reading that, sounds like the new fancy raid lock out is mainly a pug tool.

It doesn't help people raiding heroic bosses at all with their guild. You cannot downsize from that, so if we lack people one night we cannot continue.

By the time people are ready to raid heroic encounters they're usually maxed out on badge/justice point gear anyways. So being able to joined some scub pug to grabs some points on normal is crap.

Sounded nice until they prevented it all working with heroics.

[Oziriz]

Great to see Blizzard actually looking how to improve this game, I feel that WotLK was a big trial (some failure, some success) when it came to configuring the raid lock-outs. The new system is great for progress raids, new guilds (that can't always get 25 man together for their first few raids) and also PuGs, if people even care to do it any more. While keeping the normal heroic progression in tact.

I don't know what people are talking about when they say R.I.P 10 or even 25 man or they fucked over progressive 25/10 man heroic guilds, because the system is exactly the same as it is now. You just have to choose between 10 and 25 man, without feeling forced to do both any more, isn't that GREAT? More time to do other stuff in-game, IRL or maybe play other games!

Great job Blizzard I'm very grateful for these changes, now with my current 10man hc guild I don't have to worry about 25man any more!

[swills]

Man, the amount of people who fail totaly at reading comprehension is nuts. Everyone should read this twice before posting as it probably doesn't work the way you think it does.

[DrgnDancer]

So will ICC25 loot drop in ICC10 when 4.01 hits?

The flexible raidlock sounds like a bad idea to me. So you have killed the first 3 bosses in a bad pug, then you need to find a raid that has killed exactly those 3 bosses? How is that helpful.

No, you can join a group that has killed 6 bosses and kill the remaining six. You'll lose your chance at the middle three, but it's a Hell of a lot better than being stuck not being able to continue at all. It'll suck if *all* you want out of ICC is DBW or something, but at least you can keep going.

[Sunstrikeisretlawl]

So will 10m drop 25m loot now?

[Rezzyk]

Blizz quote:

The loot system in Icecrown and Ruby Sanctum is not changing. This implementation of the new flex raid lock is only that, a new implementation of the raid lockout system we'll be using in Cataclysm. This does not change the separation of 10 and 25 in ICC, and does not change the item drops or achievements.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=7

So no, no ICC/RS25 loot in 10 mans.

[Brett Skullcrack]

If it takes such a wall of text to explain this system and it's still not clear how it works, it might be a good idea to go back to the drawing board and come up with a better system.

[sidebar]

Meaning that if yr 25-man raid has 11/12 HM down for the week but has never and will never kill LK HM there is no opportunity to do the 10-man version!? Bummer.

It also means you don't have to go slog through 11 bosses to get up to LK in 10 man ... and I dooooo mean slog.

ToC was the worst ... you had to run the dam thing 4 times each week (10 norm, 10 hard, 25 normal, 25 hard) to get max loot / badges. ICC was a little better only have to run it twice (and I really liked the way they dealt with badge gear). I really like the change to a single lock out so you only have to run stuff once ... per toon.

I am still going to spend just as much time raiding after the patch as I did before, the difference will be my alts will get a lot more play time and that will keep the game fresh as the encounters play a bit differently from class to class.

[steamrice]

This thread is funny, it's like people don't want to read and keep repeating questions that gets answered repeatedly and that's why having to listen to voice dialogs in SWTOR isn't going to work for today's wow gamers. :P

[Mowse]

This thread is funny, it's like people don't want to read and keep repeating questions that gets answered repeatedly and that's why having to listen to voice dialogs in SWTOR isn't going to work for today's wow gamers. :P

Good, maybe I can finally enjoy a game without all these morons then

[Batos]

you can, in fact do a boss on H then the rest on reg. The heroic restrictions, i think, are so you cannot sell yourself out as a key to heroic encounters to those who have not already unlocked them (without committing yourself to that raid group for that lockout at least). If you were to join a group to help them access lootship, for example, you would not be able to raid anymore heroics that week unless it was with the same raid id.

Too bad the people who don't get it won't take the time to read this.

I love the new system. On my low-pop server its hard enough to get 25 people together, let alone 25 good people. I always had more fun doing 10 mans anyway. And if you care about ICC loot at this point, you're doing it wrong.

[Jontus]

One piece of clarification on questions being asked so far, although we're still compiling feedback and will work to answer some of the questions and clear up any confusion we can.

The loot system in Icecrown and Ruby Sanctum is not changing. This implementation of the new flex raid lock is only that, a new implementation of the raid lockout system we'll be using in Cataclysm. This does not change the separation of 10 and 25 in ICC, and does not change the item drops or achievements.

Blue post

[Kuja]

Hate this change My guild disbanded because of this.

[Kingsonz]

so what they changed the gear from icc 10 item level 264, and herioc icc 10 to item level 277? man this is rediculous ppl going to be walking around with 6.5k gs just by being carried through icc 10 herioc.... lawl

<Mod Edit: You cannot read. No gear is changing>