Int and Divine Plea changes in Wrath

[Azyoulike]

3) Our mainheal went from 1100 mana to 300, and we gained a free heal and they made Holy Shock cheap.

Ok - if you want to talk PTR numbers rather than Cata numbers.

5) Which was overpowered and HAD to be nerfed if they were serious about "mana matters". But I guess some people love to be overpowered.

Then SoI is a chance of returning 80 mana, which makes it beyond nerfed when you compare it to Archangel or Telluric Currents.


Now if you want to talk cata numbers, and really you should, then the main heal is up at 2.1k mana - around 10% more than the equivalent spell from a priest or druid. SoI is a chance of returning 900 mana, again far worse than either archangel or telluric currents.

Nobody disputes that mana returns from Seals was out of hand, but the reduction is to the point where it's near useless.

[Gilgemesh]

I'm not seeing too bad of mana issues so far on the PTR. But the play style has changed BIG TIME. You will not be effective just spamming divine light, holy light, or flash of light. You gotta use the right spell for the job. Holy shock and word of glory are very effective, esp word because it has no mana cost. While standing in melee range with seal of insight on doesn't benefit your mana regen much, wasting a cooldown on crusader strike gives you a free holy power, and that can save you mana because you get more word of glory uses.

[Azyoulike]

I'm not seeing too bad of mana issues so far on the PTR.

Seriously, the PTR is not an issue. PTR balancing doesn't even begin to resemble balancing at L85.

wasting a cooldown on crusader strike gives you a free holy power

For example at L85, CS will cost you 5% base mana, so 3 times for a WoG will be 3.6k mana, that's hardly a free heal is it? At L80 CS is costing yousomething like 100 mana, so it really does seem free.

[Deleted]

Ok - if you want to talk PTR numbers rather than Cata numbers.

Talking Cata numbers... you've leveled 5 levels and your base mana has gone from 5.6k to 25k mana.

All spell costs come from base mana, Holy light went from 27% base mana on live, down to 9%. Big difference.

Priests Heal = 9% base mana
Shamans Healing wave = 9% base mana
Druids Nourish = 10% base mana

[Nillo]

Yes agree, i tested on the PTR and the gain is total mana, there is no note of it on notes so this could be a stealth adjustment or a buff. Lets wait and see. Personally the MS should either be reduced to 25% or removed totally.

Afaik it was never 10% of base mana as you say, but still it's useless.
At 85 with about 7k mana cost on DL it regens about 11k mana (with mainly 333+346 gear) => in the time it takes to restore about 1.5 big heals I'm pretty much forced to spam those big heals (or put up GoAK because that's the only thing that counters the 50% ms) because healing done is heavily crippled => DP self MS needs to be reduced back to what it was (20%).


On a side note: Mana isn't that much of a problem on 85 - it's challenging to heal people in heroics without running oom, but it's certainly doable.... unless you run into what ~75% of the tanks on the beta are: Undergeared noobs, who don't know what CC is (that and DDs who stand in the most obvious kinds of AOE, like the uber slow halion like wall in Deadmines)

[Khalan]

Anyone want to inform a non-beta player how much mana all the different heals cost and how much they heal for atm? Just in standard 325 or 333 gear. I'm most interested in how much Holy Shock and Word of Glory heal for vs. Holy Light and Divine Light.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Right so spirit = Mp5 = flat static figue i.e.: 1000 Out of Combat and 800 In combat.

What if you need "emergency" regen. Your flat static regen will not CUT IT, what then. That is when you hit Mana Tide, or Rapture or Hymn of Hope, or Innervate! All those abilities DO NOT penalise the healer for asking for emergency MANA. (Apart from Paladins)

Now lets talk about combat regen, priests and other classes have wonderful ways of generating mana during healing with offensive abilities etc, i particularly love the priest model of stacking arc angel to 5 stacks to give mana regen, the regen from that is FAR superior to a Paladin running into melee to melee the boss to regen mana, (NO Comparison).

In Cataclysm where CC and coordination will matter, i find it hard to see a holy Paladin being able to get many swings in and even if you did manage to do so, 147/170 Mana per strike is not worth the risk or effort.

@ Azari:

The Tooltip is most likely out of date or Typo, as on server the regen is still 10% 2 min cd 50% debuff.

Regarding holy power, yes that was taken into my healing "rotation" of HS/WOG/HL/HOS/DB = HS HS WOG/HL/HL/FOL/LOD/WOG/HS etc... And also the healing output on my paladin is weaker that all the other healers in my guild on the PTR, which makes me a VERY sad panda.

As you may have seen on the front page, this is something Blizzard has recognised that h.pala output was very poor compared to the mana cost of the spells, hopefully they will also do something about the combat and emergency regen model of Paladins.

Either way, i love my Paladin. Let's see how it all pans out!

i totally agree, Im at 41k mana raidbuffed and i regen around 10-12k mana from one Divine Plea, with 50% healing reduction that's worth it.
with the new changes it would maybe bring back 4-5k mana at the same 50% healing debuff, the cooldown is also 2x what it is now.

a shaman totem will bring back around 10k mana.
priests hymn will bring back around 10k mana.
druids innervate will bring back around 10k mana.

Yet none of the above have any sort of penalty for their mana regen and all of them is stronger than Divine Plea is on beta now..
find somekind of fairness and balance in that if ur clever.

[Deleted]

Paladins once in some proper epic quality loot will be easily above 100k mana pools, so 15% DP will be over a 15k mana return.

Which isnt that bad, its more interesting that a mana potion will give back more mana that the regen tools though, there up at 20k mana pots if i read the alchemy list correctly.

[Azyoulike]

Priests Heal = 9% base mana
Shamans Healing wave = 9% base mana
Druids Nourish = 10% base mana

That doesn't tell the whole story because priests & druids have lower base mana than paladins & shaman. Around 10% less.

---------- Post added 2010-10-09 at 04:41 PM ----------

Paladins once in some proper epic quality loot will be easily above 100k mana pools, so 15% DP will be over a 15k mana return.

Which isnt that bad, its more interesting that a mana potion will give back more mana that the regen tools though, there up at 20k mana pots if i read the alchemy list correctly.

That and bandages are 33k HoTs, so if WoG is a regen mechanic I guess so is first aid The problem isn't that 15k is too low, it's not that much lower than sfiend is giving now. The problem is that the MS effect makes it inefficient except on encounters where we can completely stop healing for the duration.

Say we just apammed HL thorugh the DP. We might cast say 8, but only get the effect of 4, so we've essentially lost 36% base mana from the MS. Instead of gaining 15k we've actually netted about 7k mana. The problem is that they can't really remove the MS, because it's there as much to cool Ret & Prots healing in PvP as to limit Holy.