Threat Increase Removed from Mind Spike

[Rhaide]

Think of it this way.

One of the original intents for the spell was to shore up our vulnerability to school lockout, give us something we could cast with a melee in our face.

But if casting it removes all our dots, we can't cast it in the very PvP situation we were intended to use it for - trying to outdps a melee that's right on top of us.

When fighting a melee, you'll fear, load up dots, try to kite, and when he gets back on you you're in the exact same situation you were in if it were still 3.3.

I think this solution for Spike - while it should be praised for its uniqueness, creativity, and the very effort of it - is not the right one.

Everything else is gravy, though; especially the 100% Evangelism Flay ticks, that kicks ass !

I believe you are incorrect sir, if a melee gets in your face, they are playing right, and it's your job to get them out of your face however you can (that's what teamates peels are for, you shouldn't just outdps a melee who got into melee with you. That's like a rogue complaining he's at a disadvantage because his throw dagger doesn't match your MB hits. The ENTIRE point of MS is to prevent school lockout, which there is plenty of at range.

That being said... if someone is right on you, make sure they have an SW:P on and do normal peel tactics... do you know how often apparition procs? and how much damage it does? If it's a melee on you, they won't have time to deal with it before it hits, they are already on top of it. Jesus, don't worry about MS, SA MORE than takes care of high damage, non-dot-eating, instant abilities. And with the proc rate where it is, it's non-RNG enough to rely on.

[Ananan]

With such a glyph for PvP use they could make it do even more threat though. It could essentially be a taunt.

I don't think that's the whole problem though. I think the question is whether you balance Mind Spike around dealing good damage on its own with no dots up, or dealing good damage WITH dots up. In the first version it'd be overpowered for PvP where you'd happily dot and spike, and in the second case it'd be underpowered for the "nuke that add" situation.

I think they went with the correct version, but I'm a bit worried about the school lockout aspect of it. "Glyph of Mind Spike: While your shadow school is locked out, Mind Spike doesn't extinguish your dots"? :P

[Deleted]

i see spriests/mage teams where the priest completely dont uses his dots, waiting for the moment the mage sheeps one enemy and gets the other in a deepfreeze to shatter together with the mage the arse out of the frozen guy :/
three spikes one instant crit mindblast and a shadowword death spam without a cd (if target's hp is under 25%) seems like cheesy dps!
dont like that way with the removed dots <.<

[Oneirophobia]

I'm really not sure what to think of this spell. They keep changing it. I kind of liked the threat element so I can tank the twins in AQ40.

[Blackmorgrim]

This also allows us to use Mindspike like Ghostcrawler implied at one point:
Use Dark Arch Angel and spam the hell out of Mindspike.

No, actually with the new change you would never do that. It would make continuing the normal rotation totally trump it.


I still think if they want to make this spell do everything it was intended to do...
Reduce the damage by 50% (make base damage + spellpower coefficient half their current value)

Right now, 1 Mindspike does X damage, 3 Mindspikes do 3X damage.

1st Mindspike does normal damage
2nd consecutive Mindspike does 2x normal damage
3rd consecutive Mindspike does 3x normal damage, buff resets

So 1 Mindspike does .5X damage, 2nd does X damage, 3rd does 1.5X damage.

So 3 Spikes still do 3X damage.

If they really want to add a Dot remover, do it on the third one, because this is where the 1st mindspike would 'gain back' its DPET. This would also allow the PVP shadowpriest to decide its time to 'go for the kill' by casting the 3rd consecutive Spike+instantMB, and removing all his DoTs in the process. Or the priest could decide to merely do 2 consecutive mindspikes+instant MB, forgoing the buffed up Spike allowing him to keep pressure on his target.

The spell is too mana intensive to put more than a single one in rotation. Having the first Mindspike to such a small amount of damage will drop it below the DPET of mindflay, meaning it will never be cast.

Overall, I'd think modifying Mind Spike in this manner would allow Mindspike to retain its usefulness in PVE for adds, keep it out of rotation, and still have use in PVP.

Though if 'slowly' extinguish means something more like reduces their remaining duration, the spell might still not be too bad for PVP. It'd be kinda 'meh' in my opinion though.

Of course, I'm still hoping for the glyph of Mindspike which adds the threat component back for ranged tanking.

[Vook]

This also allows us to use Mindspike like Ghostcrawler implied at one point:
Use Dark Arch Angel and spam the hell out of Mindspike.

But wouldn't normal rotation be higher dps than mindspike spam?

[Deleted]

i think mindspike doesnt do much more dmg than a scorch or something with a casttime of 1,5sek and no cd. has anybody another experience? maybe from cata-beta?

[Kaithus12]

Think of it this way.

One of the original intents for the spell was to shore up our vulnerability to school lockout, give us something we could cast with a melee in our face.

But if casting it removes all our dots, we can't cast it in the very PvP situation we were intended to use it for - trying to outdps a melee that's right on top of us.

When fighting a melee, you'll fear, load up dots, try to kite, and when he gets back on you you're in the exact same situation you were in if it were still 3.3.

I think this solution for Spike - while it should be praised for its uniqueness, creativity, and the very effort of it - is not the right one.

Everything else is gravy, though; especially the 100% Evangelism Flay ticks, that kicks ass !

pretty much that

Curious,

But would Mindspike dispelling vampiric touch do the damage it would do if it was dispelled by another player?

They've gotten rid of the damage done from dispelling VT instead sin and punishment fears everything your VT'd target and everything around it. personally, fair trade

[Ananan]

Well, if Mind Spike spam dps (including SWD and MB) is somewhat close to the dps of "the rotation", then Archangel could perhaps push it slightly ahead of the "the rotation", since the dot portion of "the rotation" doesn't gain as much from Archangel as casted spells do (well it does, but it loses Evangelism).

That means that you could maybe do Archangel+Spike in a burn phase on a boss, but then it'll take a little time to get your dots rolling again etcetera afterwards, so it should probably only be done if it's really needed, or if it kills the boss.

[Blackmorgrim]

They've gotten rid of the damage done from dispelling VT instead sin and punishment fears everything your VT'd target and everything around it. personally, fair trade

Actually, as far as I was aware, it fears the dispeller and everything around it...

[Deleted]

that would be silly if the priest is feared because of dispelling his own VT via mindspike.

[spleen1015]

that would be silly if the priest is feared because of dispelling his own VT via mindspike.

That's assuming the Mind Spike dispels VT. Is extinguishes it, but that doesn't mean dispel does it?

[Annesh]

I believe you are incorrect sir, if a melee gets in your face, they are playing right, and it's your job to get them out of your face however you can (that's what teamates peels are for, you shouldn't just outdps a melee who got into melee with you. That's like a rogue complaining he's at a disadvantage because his throw dagger doesn't match your MB hits. The ENTIRE point of MS is to prevent school lockout, which there is plenty of at range.

That being said... if someone is right on you, make sure they have an SW:P on and do normal peel tactics... do you know how often apparition procs? and how much damage it does? If it's a melee on you, they won't have time to deal with it before it hits, they are already on top of it. Jesus, don't worry about MS, SA MORE than takes care of high damage, non-dot-eating, instant abilities. And with the proc rate where it is, it's non-RNG enough to rely on.

Let me guess - you're a melee?

There are exactly two ranged spell interrupts, out of nine total in cataclysm. You honestly expect us to swallow the idea that Mind Spike is only meant to be useful against two of nine spell interrupts in the game?

So yeah, your bias isn't just showing. It's hanging right out there in the wind, proudly flopping around in all its happy little glory.