Mage Nerf Incoming? (Blue Post)

[Indiglo]

Still dumbfounded that people care about the numbers in this patch.

...Said the Mage.

[Goretex]

Most likely mages will just get a small nerf. Mages haven't ever relaly got nerfed bad so I doubt if they will nerf mages like they did BM huntards.

[Mogu]

Totaly.. Nerf mages. 1 mage just three shooted me.. like 33k hp in 3 sec's, 16k frostbolt + 2x13.9k icelance = faceroll?

You mean the way every other DPS class does to mages?

[SunnyDayRealEstate]

We all knew this nerf was coming, all I'm worried about is which specs will be raid viable come Cata.

[angra]

Logs:

Last Week Saurfang: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=2564&e=2718
This Week Saurfang: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...?s=1804&e=1949 (garbage impact procs, beasts died too fast)

Last Week Rotface: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=3246&e=3419
This Week Rotface: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...?s=2634&e=2813

Last Week Putricide: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=5957&e=6247
This Week Putricide: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...?s=4355&e=4613

Last Week Council: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=6631&e=6846
This Week Council: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...?s=5848&e=6095 (was doing so much more on the first wipe )

Not too fond of my play on several of the parses in the logs, especially Saurfang, etc. But, Comparisons are Comparisons.

Offtopic but what are you reforging any of your gears stats? Doesn't show up on armory for some reason.

[Jokipaan]

Before everyone cracks the shits and starts pointing the fingers at other specs wouldnt it be best to sit back and see what they actually change first? I know history isnt the best when it comes to nerfs but i bet they will line you up to roughly what most were doing before 4.0.1 give/take 5%...

[Mogu]

Just tested DPS
Went from 12k to 8k
Siiigh...

[Alicella]

Logs:

Last Week Saurfang: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=2564&e=2718
This Week Saurfang: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...?s=1804&e=1949 (garbage impact procs, beasts died too fast)

Last Week Rotface: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=3246&e=3419
This Week Rotface: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...?s=2634&e=2813

Last Week Putricide: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=5957&e=6247
This Week Putricide: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...?s=4355&e=4613

Last Week Council: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=6631&e=6846
This Week Council: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...?s=5848&e=6095 (was doing so much more on the first wipe )

Not too fond of my play on several of the parses in the logs, especially Saurfang, etc. But, Comparisons are Comparisons.

Ahh so I wrote a huge response and it didn't post let me sum it up again.

You had a significant difference in DPS, as I stated in an earlier thread I posted logs showing my differences. I'll show you as well. I did around the same last week if not better. Also did you reforge your gear at all to mastery? From my understanding Mastery isn't really worth it for fire currently at 80, based on what i've seen from the researchers.

Saurfang Last week: 22.1k (with no PI's or any outside buffs)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6865&e=6990

This week 20.8k (like you said used impact when blood beasts spawned, but they die rather quicky) I save combustion for when I have a good Ignite rolling + Pyro Dot + LB DoT.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3970&e=4100


Last week's Rotface 21.6k
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7665&e=7822


This weeks Rotface (1k More than last week, not a Huge difference, a great single target fight for the most part)22.6k
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4941&e=5090


Last Week's Blood Princes: 21.6k
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9814&e=9975

THis week's Blood Princes: 23.1k (again about 1k dps more)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8099&e=8270

[nemex]

Offtopic but what are you reforging any of your gears stats? Doesn't show up on armory for some reason.

The only two items I reforged were my Halion trinket and ICC Rep Ring to get exact hit cap. I have +0 Mastery.

[lockos]

i can say that i tested arcane and yesterday i was steady at 11k dps and today i was at 8-8.5k what is the fun aspect? arcane blast was from 7800-57k dmg so we got our average dmg reduced but we can still 1 shot ppl in some cases? i don't know if they did a hotfix but today arcane for me is much lower than yesterday

[zephid]

There's this little thing called beta...

I don't think most people would have cared if this was on the beta, but this is on the live servers which is not a beta.

People are still paying to play on the live servers so they don't accept the same amount of bugs/balance issues you are expected to accept on a beta server.

[Desparil]

I was testing frost on dummy today and i noticed when i use FFB on Brain Freeze it now consumes both Fingers of Frost stacks, it can still be casted with one stack though. Cant recall if that was the case yesterday.

[Swizzle]

I don't think most people would have cared if this was on the beta, but this is on the live servers which is not a beta.

People are still paying to play on the live servers so they don't accept the same amount of bugs/balance issues you are expected to accept on a beta server.

All I care is that the nerfs they make are easily reverted by leveling or with the press of a button. I don't like my oranges to be nerfed because of apples. Has Cataclysm raid testing started? Haven't heard any news on that front, and until people show numbers from those raids, people going ZOMG TOO MCUH DPS ON BETAZ need to relax and stop making things up.

[deviancee]

Fire mage has already been stealth nerfed, im doing 3k dps less on dummy then yesterday

[zephid]

Haven't heard any news on that front, and until people show numbers from those raids, people going ZOMG TOO MCUH DPS ON BETAZ need to relax and stop making things up.

True, the raid testing on the beta hasn't started yet. But people are not complaining about the mage damage on the beta, they are complaining about the damage on the live servers.

Any change blizzard manage to implement as a hot fix will be easy to revert if they have to.

[Deleted]

Ho ho ho. Dat slaps me on the knee.

[Swizzle]

Just as a frame of reference, I defended ret palis when 3.0 hit live servers as well.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Down with the Mage overlords! *shake fist*

Regards,
Paladin

(Sorry, I thought it would be fun writing it. =P)

[Hibbo]

Remove your Glyph of Frostfire and Frostfire Bolt will not consume both Applications of FoF. This is a bug and the Dot is Consuming the second FoF Charge.

[allrightythen]

The following post was made by Ghostcrawler on 10/13/2010
---------------------------------------------------------------

Rather than try and address multiple threads, I'm just going to plop our current thoughts in this one post. Please excuse the brevity.

1) We think Fury, Arms, Feral cat and Retribution dps is too low and we will be buffing them.
2) We think mage dps is too high, especially Fire, and will be nerfing it.
3) We think Shadow priest dps is too high, but that's largely a result of Shadow Word: Death spam, which is tough on healers. We'll be fixing that.
4) We think Destro warlock dps is too high, but that's largely a result of Searing Pain spam, which is tough on tanks. We'll be fixing that.
5) As we suspected, PvP dps is just too high given that the health pools of Cataclysm haven't kicked in yet. While competitive PvP is over for the moment, we still want the environment to feel better so we will be buffing resilience. This change might be reverted at level 85.

There will probably be more changes after another night of raiding and BGs. Many of the bug fixes we have made today will affect dps as well. Stay tuned.

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer
---------------------------------------------------------------

My opinion:
Personally I do not find “Fire” DPS to be exceptionally high in a single target situation. My H ICC25 geared mage was capable of sustaining similar DPS to what we have currently in the patch (outside of ICC). So far on test dummies I have found using a rotation of Scorch, LB, FFBx3, FB, Pyro Crit, and Combustion to keep me around 12k dps. The rotation is not forgiving of errors. If I use just FFB or FB it tends to dip by ~1k-1.5k. That said I do see quite a bit of DPS increases in situations where we have multiple targets, it scales very quickly. Hopefully it is only that portion they are looking into.

In comparison to other classes I do not feel we are out of line in single target situations. There’s a warlock in my guild with similar level gear and we used to be on equal footing DPS wise prior to the patch. Now I find myself trailing her by 3k dps. (12 vs 15k), a destro lock. I’ve also noticed Boomkins doing very high amounts of DPS.

I’m not saying some aspects of Mages are not broken or very powerful. Using my fire gear I tried an Arcane spec and managed to get off a few 60-72k Arcane Blast. The sustained DPS for arcane seems appropriate if not just a little too powerful over fire with lesser gear atm. That burst of 60-72k in a single shot however is OP even considering health pools at level 85 (let’s say 100k HP?).

We really need glyphs to be corrected before we can even jump all over these #s.
Your thoughts?

i have a 80 mage as well and i say you are either doing it wrong, or are covering your ass.

warlocks are getting nerfed as well btw, so talking about your warlock guildy doesnt provide any real basis.

same with boomkins.

I did arcane, i was GOOD at arcane, and fire upped my dps by 3-6k easily in just 5 mans, thats not counting raids. That is without gear upgrades. and thats also single target.

AoE is much higher.

though i do not use FFB, where did you figure FFBx3 was the way to go?

Either way im ok with them nerfing the dps (eventually arcane as well, or at least leveling it out) so long as

A) its still a competitive alternative to arcane for raiding

B) its still as fun mechanics wise as it is now (both single target and aoe)

going between AoE and single target dps as fire is so fluid it feels wonderful, i dont want to lose that either.