1. #2001
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterNewbie View Post
    The 2T11 bonus generally speaking is competitive with or better than 2 non-tier 378 pieces, even if it's normal 2T11. If possible I would recommend keeping hands and shoulders as they have the least amount of stats (so you are losing out on less stats by not using 378).
    Regarding dropping 2T11 for 2T12. 2T12 is a bigger bonus so you should pick it up when you can, but depending on your FL progression (i.e. if you can't get 4T12) keep an eye out for a piece to reactivate your 2T11.

  2. #2002
    So, simming my dps with mew recently, it's showing that APS is around 1k dps higher than hunger/essence (no luck on matrix sadly)
    Any suggestions on if it's actually better?

  3. #2003
    So, in light of the Rake nerf/bugfix, how does that affect the value of 2T11?

    Basically the only two slots for consideration in my case are gloves and legs, and it's between 2T11H, or 2T12N. (That is until I can secure 4T12, but it's going to be a while for me before I can get there since I'm probably going to have to go casual and be demoted from core raider for the next ~2 months due to RL issues.) Sims haven't been updated yet, so can anyone who has the gear comment on the Rake change possibly making the higher item level of the T12 outweigh the bonus of the T11?

  4. #2004
    Deleted
    There isnt Rake nerf.Now after the patch the logs are just showing the initial rake hit damage sepаrate from the dot so you dont lose tick...it just show it sepаrate and not merged like it was before the patch.It was sepаrate in 4.1 and before, merged in 4.2 and now again sepаrate in 4.2a thats why you think you get less ticks...

  5. #2005
    Why do you rate APS that low?
    Having 4t12, hit/exp capped, max reforging towards haste (1650 haste, 920 crit, 830 mastery), have raggy trink... so mew shows APS > Hungerer, difference is 80-90 dps.

  6. #2006
    I've got a question relating to Glyph of Berserk vs Glyph of Savage Roar.

    Basically, with my current gear level + reforging/gemming, I've dropped a lot of haste since using T11 gear. I was really dumb and didn't think to use Glyph of Berserk then so now I see it listed as the Prime Glyph to use in place of Glyph of Savage Roar. Now, with my T11 gear, my haste was high enough that I could have theoretically gotten the most bang by using Berserk and not worry too much about running out of energy. With my current gear, my primary concern is that my haste isn't high enough and I'd run OOE long before my extended Berserk is over.

    Is there some sort of magical golden number in terms of haste that I should get before switching my glyph?

  7. #2007

  8. #2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragekitty View Post
    Basically, with my current gear level + reforging/gemming, I've dropped a lot of haste since using T11 gear. I was really dumb and didn't think to use Glyph of Berserk then so now I see it listed as the Prime Glyph to use in place of Glyph of Savage Roar. Now, with my T11 gear, my haste was high enough that I could have theoretically gotten the most bang by using Berserk and not worry too much about running out of energy. With my current gear, my primary concern is that my haste isn't high enough and I'd run OOE long before my extended Berserk is over.
    The extra 10 seconds on berserk means you'll get at least 110 energy over the extra duration (assuming 10% haste raid buff). This is 5+ half-cost shreds (2.5 free) which is around a 350 dps increase. Glyph of SR tacks on an extra ~2.7% (base roared melee damage is 180%) damage from autoattacks while it is active. I want to say that would be around a 60 dps increase. I feel that my math is off, though, so there you go.

    Energy regenerates always, remember that (unless you're at max energy).

  9. #2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedmak277 View Post
    Why do you rate APS that low?
    Having 4t12, hit/exp capped, max reforging towards haste (1650 haste, 920 crit, 830 mastery), have raggy trink... so mew shows APS > Hungerer, difference is 80-90 dps.
    Exactly same for me. Saving DKP for hc Hungerer since normal version doesn't seem to be DPS gain at all. It's kinda tricky tho. Rawr or pages like askmrrobot are suggesting that Hungerer is better than APS by 150 - 250 DPS, which is huge. It's possible that the internal cd of APS in latest Mew is wrong or something like that.
    Last edited by Xenerix; 2011-08-16 at 03:22 AM.

  10. #2010
    Rawr and Mrrobot use Formulation modelling. We have already determined that Formulation modeling simply doesn't work for Cat anymore, that's why Mew has abandoned the Toskk Formulation model.

    If you average the agility bonus of APS over time as the Formulation models do, it will suck compared to the Hungerer. However, if you are a smart cat, you would macro the use of APS to coincide with Tiger's Fury and Berserk. Mew Simulation models this strategy and shows that the APS pulls ahead of the Hungerer if you do it right.

  11. #2011
    Mihir you rock! Chop chop down Raggy before Numen!

  12. #2012
    Quote Originally Posted by tangedyn View Post
    Rawr and Mrrobot use Formulation modelling. We have already determined that Formulation modeling simply doesn't work for Cat anymore, that's why Mew has abandoned the Toskk Formulation model.

    If you average the agility bonus of APS over time as the Formulation models do, it will suck compared to the Hungerer. However, if you are a smart cat, you would macro the use of APS to coincide with Tiger's Fury and Berserk. Mew Simulation models this strategy and shows that the APS pulls ahead of the Hungerer if you do it right.
    This is interesting, thanks for answer.

  13. #2013

  14. #2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Conatzer View Post
    So, simming my dps with mew recently, it's showing that APS is around 1k dps higher than hunger/essence (no luck on matrix sadly)
    Any suggestions on if it's actually better?
    Note that in Mew, checking/unchecking the trinket proc effects only enables/disables the proc effect.
    You have to manually add/subtract static stats like Agility and Mastery

  15. #2015
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    I think the BIS normal list needs updating given the recent trinket valuations?

  16. #2016
    Deleted
    How much difference is between APS and The Hungerer normal and isn't its advantage only situational? Because from one point of view it's:
    - 383 mastery (or 230mastery/153haste) and average 319 agility
    VS
    - average 383 haste and 383 agility.

  17. #2017
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
    I think the BIS normal list needs updating given the recent trinket valuations?
    Fixed

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-16 at 03:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekthelion View Post
    How much difference is between APS and The Hungerer normal and isn't its advantage only situational? Because from one point of view it's:
    - 383 mastery (or 230mastery/153haste) and average 319 agility
    VS
    - average 383 haste and 383 agility.
    It's quite a small difference, in my current gear the difference was around 30 dps.

  18. #2018
    Picked up T12 shoulder token and The Hungerer last night. (Yay for stockpiling DKP!) I'm quite convinced that I'll never see the Flamescythe drop. Or at least, at this rate I'll have the heroic version before a normal one ever drops.


    Awesome.


    Anyway, The Hungerer + H Prestor's Talisman of Machination: Is that overkill? Should I swap Prestor's out for APS? I'm still using 2pc T11 until I can either get T12 helm from Ragnaros or save enough VP for T12 legs.


    Also, on our first Majordomo kills, I was trying to focus on the boss and just Swipe when there were more than 1-2 cats around him. Last night my overall damage was really terrible using this method. Just trying to figure out the best way of maximizing my damage output when there are only 2-3 mobs at a time to hit. I was under the impression that Swipe should really only be used in place of single target DPS when there are 4+ mobs around, else it's a DPS loss. How do you guys do Staghelm?
    Last edited by Ragekitty; 2011-08-16 at 01:59 PM.

  19. #2019
    Deleted
    I love the Hungerer + Matrix combination (both haste procs) because it's like having Your own little Bloodlust

  20. #2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragekitty View Post
    Also, on our first Majordomo kills, I was trying to focus on the boss and just Swipe when there were more than 1-2 cats around him. Last night my overall damage was really terrible using this method. Just trying to figure out the best way of maximizing my damage output when there are only 2-3 mobs at a time to hit. I was under the impression that Swipe should really only be used in place of single target DPS when there are 4+ mobs around, else it's a DPS loss. How do you guys do Staghelm?
    I ignore the adds and let the other DPS handle them

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