The Cat Guide - 4.3

[Deleted]

I would assume using Relentless Earthsiege Diamond until I see any of the new Agile Shadowspirit Diamond on the AH is the way go to?

Yep.. also says so in the guide 8)

[medloh]

21 agi > 54 crit
Rawr is wrong.

Hmm, Rawr guys are saying Metas should be working right. Maybe I need to reset my item cache...

[Smartie]

Rawr still bugs out trying to load a character from "Azjol-Nerub" on me

[Xenerix]

Hmm, Rawr guys are saying Metas should be working right. Maybe I need to reset my item cache...

Just use common sense and look at DPS values of agi and crit...

[bavarcarus]

anyone know why they decided all epic crafted items but agi leather needed gem sockets?

[Deleted]

they probably forgot, even tho it was reported to them

[Shadowfury]

I have one question,is it haste now close to mastery since we are spamming shred and how much haste we need to do competitive dps? And is haste now better then crit,or close to crit?

Edit: i noticed that someone already asked,i just want to hear exp from ppl that tested this in raid.

[Deleted]

mastery will always be the nr1 secondary stat

crit will be better than haste at 346-359 level, at that point haste will become equal, and at full 372 gear haste will be slightly ahead.

[Manapaws]

I have been told that the new Unheeded Warning was ninja-fixed to only affect White Hits, and no longer Mangle/Shred. I cannot find proof of this anywhere but I can't find proof that it does affect Mangle/Shred.

I do not have access to Heroic Essence of the Cyclone just yet.
Wondering if Tia's Grace (heroic) + Fluid > Unheeded Warning + Fluid. All the information on Unheeded seems to be weeks old. Agh!

[Xenerix]

Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 6609 Physical.
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 13984 Physical.(Critical)
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 6287 Physical.
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 6476 Physical.
Tullkas gains Tullkas's Heedless Carnage.
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 8928 Physical.
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 17193 Physical.(Critical)
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 8779 Physical.

[Exostential]

Pudding proof.

[Deleted]

Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 6609 Physical.
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 13984 Physical.(Critical)
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 6287 Physical.
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 6476 Physical.
Tullkas gains Tullkas's Heedless Carnage.
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 8928 Physical.
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 17193 Physical.(Critical)
Tullkas's Mangle hits Raider's Training Dummy for 8779 Physical.

Just tested, same goes for me.

[Velnica]

Good thing I kept that Unheeded Warning form last night's raid... Here's it replacing my Endless Chamber

[Drdraker]

yo guys!
Atm the trinkets i have access is Tia's grace/Unsolable Riddle/unheeded warning ,i also have around 2k Valor Points .My question is which trinkets should i use ?Shall i buy FD or T11 Hands to take the (2) Set bonus?
Thanks in advance

[Deleted]

Hard to say without seeing the rest of your gear.

[Drdraker]

My armory is Drdraker of Aggramar (EU) ,i dont have a priority on loot or invs in my guild since im not an officer so i dont have access to 372 trinkets :/ what do u think mihir?
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...raker/advanced

[Manapaws]

Just tested, same goes for me.

Hmmm... well I'll be trying it out anyway. It's already bound to me!

[Thieme]

First of all i want to say that i can't get mew working, so don't have math or simulations to back up my claims below.

As far as i can see with the 4.0.6 changes Glyph of Ferocious Bite is a DPS increase because they made shred more valuable then Fero Bite.

Now a little les obvious glyph change might be Glyph of Berserk. At higher gear levels haste overtakes crit. Even at my 353 Ilvl with 8.73 haste (without buffs) I noticed in my random HC (with 5% haste buff) that i couldn't seem to loose my energy during berserk. So my guess is Glyph of Berserk becomes more valuable then Glyph of Tiger's Fury when you are at a certain haste level. I am just curious as to when that is and if that is right.

So discuss

[Rambear]

First of all i want to say that i can't get mew working, so don't have math or simulations to back up my claims below.

As far as i can see with the 4.0.6 changes Glyph of Ferocious Bite is a DPS increase because they made shred more valuable then Fero Bite.

Now a little les obvious glyph change might be Glyph of Berserk. At higher gear levels haste overtakes crit. Even at my 353 Ilvl with 8.73 haste (without buffs) I noticed in my random HC (with 5% haste buff) that i couldn't seem to loose my energy during berserk. So my guess is Glyph of Berserk becomes more valuable then Glyph of Tiger's Fury when you are at a certain haste level. I am just curious as to when that is and if that is right.

So discuss

DPE of Shred > FB. This means that above 25% HP we should ideally never be using FB. By definition, that also means that if we need to FB to refresh rip that a shred+FB will do more dpe then a 70 energy FB. In addition, only using 35 energy on FB always means you can start regenning combo points sooner lowering the chance of Rip ever falling off. Personally I will swap in FB asap, unless theorycrafting proves me wrong, but it seems a better option to me.

As for berserk vs. TF: say we indeed do not run out of energy during berserk: 5 seconds = 3 extra GCDs to spam shred: That equates to 60 energy every 3 minutes.
TF= 60 energy and a damage buff every 30 seconds. Unglyphed thats 2 energy/second. 60/27 is=2.2 energy per second. 0.2 energy per second extra. Over 3 minutes thats 180x0.2-36 extra energy.
For pure energy gain that means berserk > TF.

However, there is the 15% damage buff. Normally there would be a 20% uptime when used on CD every time (except att the start and assumiing perfect play).
When TF is used every 27 seconds we get an uptime of 22.2%. That means we get 2.2% longer 15% buff. My exact math is failing me, but I reckon that a long the lines of a 0.3% damage buff (feel free to correct me). This is excluding having more Rips/rake's buffed with 15%.

Say over 5 minutes doing 20k dps you do 6 million damage-> 0.3% extra means you do 1.003x6000000=6018000 damage, is 18000 damage.
Over 5 minutes berserk glyph you have exaclty 40 energy extra compared to TF glyph. The question is then-> Will this 1 extra shred do 18k damage? I reckon that once you are at the level at which you do 20k damage you'd have shreds doing 18-20k without a crit. while also adding 1-2 additional combo points.

While my math might be flawed, and I hope someone will point that out if so, if I am not wrong that means that berserk will edge out TF glyph. Mind you, the difference being marginal, and contingent on perfect play and 100% uptime on the boss.

Having to run away from boss during berserk or postponing berserk for a burn phase will lowevr the vlaue of the glyph, but downtime also affects TF, arguable less since thats easier to time around ripping/raking., but timing berserk so that you are on the boss should be easy enough. The difference is marginal either way, but with the extra effect of burst dps in burn phases (Magmaw) I reckon I will run with Berserk.

Feel free to bash my analysis. Hope MEw/Rawr/FbN have stuff to say on it soon, but so far I would agree with you that FB+Zerker glyphs are the best options.

[Arctagon]

In 4.0.6, at ilvl 359+, crit, hit, exp and haste should all be roughly worth the same. After factoring in socket bonuses and reforging the highest stat to mastery, you end up with the following stats:

T11 chest + nonset shoulders
131 expertise
142 haste
20 hit

T11 shoulders + nonset chest
227 crit
36 mastery

Assuming crit=hit=exp=haste, you end up with 293 vs 227 + 36 mastery.

This ofcourse depends a lot on how your current gear is, etc.

Then you might as well put mastery there as well, since the gap between crit + haste and expertise + hit is as big as the gap between crit + haste and mastery, assuming ilvl 359 gear.

Nevertheless, using the stats you provided, the dps values are 274.22 and 265.28 respectively, so it seems non-set shoulders is the way to go.

Quick question about trinkets, i have been using Fluid Death and Tia's Grace, would it now be better to use Fluid Death and the newly changed Unheeded Warning?

Fluid Death + Unheeded Warning is roughly 200 dps better than Fluid Death + Tia's Grace, depending on your gear, so yes.

Are we weighing haste a little higher than crit now that we want to get as many shreds as possible in?

(i.e... do I take the plunge and reforge all my crit to haste?)

It depends on your gear. Here's a rough guideline:
- Item level 346: Crit > Haste
- Item level 359: Crit = Haste
- Item level 372: Crit < Haste

anyone know why they decided all epic crafted items but agi leather needed gem sockets?

they probably forgot, even tho it was reported to them

I read your thread regarding this matter on the official forums, Mihir, but I don't know if you two noticed this line in the patch notes:
'A socket has been added to most crafted epic armor pieces that did not already have one.'
Note the word 'most'. Blizzard always choose their words carefully. Although, I do very much agree on the fact that the crafted epic piece should definitely receive a socket. They barely beat ilvl 346 gear, if at all.

Also, Mihir, it would be nice if you could tell us whenever you update the original post. I, at least, am not checking it for updates whenever I'm on these forums.

While I'm at it, I want to ask you about one of the lines in the priority list in the original post. 'Use Ravage if TF is up.' I assume you mean the Ravage from the Stampede proc. TF's effect has a duration of 6 seconds and our priority is to refresh Rip and Rake. Is the remaining time really sufficient to run out, charge in and Ravage? ... Hm, I guess it might work if you time it and execute it very well. You most likely need to be at 5CP when you hit TF, or at least by the time you apply Rip, else you won't make it. Any hesitation in this process will most likely devastate it, as well.

Regarding Synapse Springs from Engineering; here are some dps values compared to not using it at all:
- Item level 346: +216.003 dps
- Item level 359: +245.096 dps
- Item level 372: +252.483 dps

Lastly, you might want to update the enchant list and switch bracer enchant, and wouldn't it be worth adding Ebonsteel Belt Buckle combined with +40 agility to the list as well?