The Cat Guide - 4.3

[MasterNewbie]

I find it curious when people say that, because the difference between haste and mastery reforge for me was 1 dps, in favor of mastery

To my knowledge, the typical uncertainty in Mew regarding average dps is usually on the order of +/-2.7 (I roll with 100k iterations usually). Unless you went with more iterations to decrease uncertainty or the dps difference was larger (I want to say at least 1.4*uncertainty, so for uncertainty of 2.7 means the difference needs to be greater than 4.8), it is impossible to definitively say the mastery reforge is the superior option. If someone well-versed in statistics wants to correct me, feel free, but I am reasonably confident it is roughly like that.

Mew is not a deterministic program; it doesn't tell you what your dps will be, but what it will probably be.

[Iceleet]

We should rename this thread to the "QQ Staghelm Won't Drop The Flamescythe Thread".

Consider this my weekly QQ.


Also, just picked up my 4pc T12. At this point, I'm hit capped with 19/26 expertise. Using The Hungerer + APS as my trinkets for the time being, with the mastery on APS reforged to haste. Anything glaringly wrong with not being absolutely expertise capped? Or is my reforging completely wonky?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Feira/simple -- Link to my Armory for reference. >_<

I just got my heroic Staghelm Flamescythe, I got lucky I guess!
I still don't have my 4t12 :/ I'm not getting lucky with the token drops

[Epoch]

I'm in full normal BiS (short of my neck piece, I don't have matrix, and my bracers have the wrong random enchant) and without sacrificing any haste, I am having issues even coming close to the hit/exp cap. I'm wondering if I should just wait it out, but it's rather disheartening.

I was playing around with reforging, you could try something like the following using stat values that I believe Mihir mentioned earlier in this thread:

Helm = 85 crit --> exp
Neck = 64 mastery --> haste
Shoulder = 86 mastery --> hit
Cloak = 38 mastery --> exp
Chest = 110 crit --> haste
Wrist = 60 mastery --> exp
Gloves = 70 crit --> hit
Belt = 84 haste --> exp
Legs = 113 mastery --> exp
Feet = 74 mastery --> exp
Splintered = 63 mastery --> haste
Widow's = 50 mastery --> hit
Ancient = 153 mastery --> hit
Fandral's = 106 mastery --> exp
Covenant = 32 mastery --> hit

Using the above reforge I'm seeing an increase of 153 haste; and a 157.8 overall increase for you, while keeping exp / hit caps. Even though you would be reforging haste off the belt, you're still gaining more haste overall

Edit: Found mihir's stat weights on page 103:

Currently using:

exp 1.5002
hit 1.5001
haste 1.5
crit 1.38
mastery 1.35

Furthermore, i set the hit cap to 960, exp cap to 780, and the match type to "close to" instead of "at least".

However, I set it to "exactly to" instead of "at least". Give the above a try and see how it works out :P

[Williee]

Im jus wondering... is ter too much haste as a feral nearing bis gear?
I have about 2100+ haste while having almost hit cap and soft exp cap

[Deleted]

Reading this thread makes me wanna get back to raiding..... -.-

[Infs]

Im jus wondering... is ter too much haste as a feral nearing bis gear?
I have about 2100+ haste while having almost hit cap and soft exp cap

I don't see why having that much haste would be a problem. Afaik there aren't any kind of caps to worry about. Perhaps haste will lose value if you energy cap in berserk but I doubt that's the case

[Zheryn]

For those of you who want to make the reforging super easy just download ReforgeLite http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...forgelite.aspx which was on MMO front page a while ago. You can just enter how you want to reforge (hit+exp cap > haste > crit > mastery) for example and it will find the best way to get as close to hit and exp caps and then reforge everything else to haste. You don't have to drag every piece to the reforger either, it will automatically reforge the pieces that needs reforging.

[MasterNewbie]

To energy cap during berserk (going to assume shredx4 for 5cps and an FB) you'd need at least 97 energy to successfully perform those abilities. Over 5 seconds, that would be an energy regen of 19.4 seconds. If bloodlust isn't active, to have that kind of regen you'd need close to 9800 haste rating, or 9126 with DI. The string of abilities regularly (not necessarily frequently) used that requires (emphasis on requires) the least amount of energy would be shredx3, rakex1 and an FB. This would be 93 energy or 18.6 energy per second, 8850 rating would be necessary, 8222 with DI.

If bloodlust is active, you'll need 4749 haste, 4238 with DI, to energy cap in the first case, or 3853, 3368 with DI, to energy cap in the second case. I didn't take into account the extra 25 energy FB can consume, so I doubt you'll be energy capping even with hungerer/matrix(haste) procs and BL active.

[Infs]

To energy cap during berserk (going to assume shredx4 for 5cps and an FB) you'd need at least 97 energy to successfully perform those abilities. Over 5 seconds, that would be an energy regen of 19.4 seconds. If bloodlust isn't active, to have that kind of regen you'd need close to 9800 haste rating, or 9126 with DI. The string of abilities regularly (not necessarily frequently) used that requires (emphasis on requires) the least amount of energy would be shredx3, rakex1 and an FB. This would be 93 energy or 18.6 energy per second, 8850 rating would be necessary, 8222 with DI.

If bloodlust is active, you'll need 4749 haste, 4238 with DI, to energy cap in the first case, or 3853, 3368 with DI, to energy cap in the second case. I didn't take into account the extra 25 energy FB can consume, so I doubt you'll be energy capping even with hungerer/matrix(haste) procs and BL active.

Thumbs up for math. So, short answer, no there is no such thing as too much haste?

[sarad]

Nope. No such thing as too much haste (with our current tier).

[MasterNewbie]

Thumbs up for math. So, short answer, no there is no such thing as too much haste?

When the stars align, there might be (bloodlust, DI, heroic hungerer and matrix haste procs on top of a haste-oriented reforging strategy). Let's say there is 2100 haste from gear, 1730 h-hungerer proc, ~1830 h-matrix haste proc (assuming the heroic tooltip is also incorrect and the actual buff is about 100 more than the hungerer like in normal). With those, DI, and bloodlust you'll be sitting at 21.2 energy per second.

If you were to rake->shredx3->rip->shredx4->FB (assuming you've just popped TF with your berserk, so you'd want to refresh rake and rip is in there just because).

For this sequence you'd need 17.5+21*3+15+21*4+12.5+(up to 25) = 192 energy (up to 217 energy). We have 10 abilities, so 10 seconds of 21.2 eps is 212 energy, and we will be using up to 217 energy.

However, remove FB from the sequence, we have used ~180 energy over 9 seconds, at 21.2 eps you would have generated ~191 in that time period, so you would have had a net gain of 11 energy before FB, which may or may not energy cap you, depending on how much energy you had when you used TF.

[Ragekitty]

Try this, maybe:


Head : CritRating -> HasteRating
Neck : MasteryRating -> HitRating
Shoulders : MasteryRating -> HitRating
Chest : CritRating -> HasteRating
Waist : HitRating -> ExpertiseRating
Legs : MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Feet : MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Wrists : CritRating -> ExpertiseRating
Hands : CritRating -> HitRating
Ring1 : CritRating -> ExpertiseRating
Ring2 : MasteryRating -> HitRating
Trinket1 : MasteryRating -> HasteRating
Back : CritRating -> HasteRating
MainHand : CritRating -> ExpertiseRating
Ranged : MasteryRating -> HasteRating

Thanks for the reforging advice. It put me at 1525 Haste rating, 8.13% Hit, 24 Expertise, and 14.79 Mastery. I'm now a little over hit cap but I think I can change the Agi/Hit gem in my pants to Agi/Haste and I'll be fine.

[sarad]

You'd get more agi out of gemming gemming agi/stam instead of switching it to an orange. Even better would be straight agi in both slots, though.

[Ragekitty]

Hrm, you're probably right but they're last tier's pants, which I'm expecting to replace soon anyway. No sense in wasting precious Agility gems on crap pants, right?

[sarad]

True enough. In that case, I wouldn't bother changing anything at all Can drop the reforge on either your neck or one of your rings to even back out again. You'll fall slightly below, but at least you're not losing any haste/mastery rating on that piece.

[tangedyn]

To my knowledge, the typical uncertainty in Mew regarding average dps is usually on the order of +/-2.7 (I roll with 100k iterations usually). Unless you went with more iterations to decrease uncertainty or the dps difference was larger (I want to say at least 1.4*uncertainty, so for uncertainty of 2.7 means the difference needs to be greater than 4.8), it is impossible to definitively say the mastery reforge is the superior option. If someone well-versed in statistics wants to correct me, feel free, but I am reasonably confident it is roughly like that.

To be precise, for 95% confidence that m1 > m2, m1-m2 needs to be more than sqrt(s1^2 + s2^2)
But ya, if s1 ~= s2, then 1.4 * s1 is a good approximation.

[Tygroen]

I think he was actually talking to me with the reforging advice, hehe, unless I'm mistaken, cause I got perfect hit/exp cap for trying that. I lost a lot of haste (which is what I was trying to avoid), but it'll likely be a net gain in DPS, and it's definitely worth trying out. I haven't been hit/exp capped in years, haha, this'll be interesting. This will be my first week testing 4 piece tier 12 (Just got it like immediately after that post), so we'll see how it all works out. I am hopeful!

[SmokeyIllidan]

I'm looking at the last few upgrades that I can obtain, and it's becoming increasingly harder to keep hit/exp caps while keeping haste above mastery rating. Example, if I pick up Fandrals tonight, no matter what I do, I will either lose hit or exp cap, or mastery will be higher than haste rating. Which means Matrix is going to proc mastery randomly, which is really frustrating.

Edit: The only possible way I see of retaining haste as the top stat while keeping hit and expertise caps, is dropping Sinestra belt for the 378 one. I'm going to lose a socket, I'm going to lose the socket bonus, I'm going to lose 20 hit, but it is the only possible way I see to keep haste in front of mastery should I get a fandrals.

Edit #2: Doing the math on the belts, I'm going to lose 24 AGI going from Sinestra's to the BoE belt. But it's also going to give me 157 expertise rating to play with, which most likely means I'll gain a bit more haste. I don't like losing the AGI, but procing mastery on matrix isnt as great as guaranteed haste procs.

[Xenerix]

Head : HasteRating -> HitRating
Neck : MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Shoulders : MasteryRating -> HasteRating
Chest : CritRating -> HasteRating
Waist : MasteryRating -> HitRating
Legs : MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Feet : MasteryRating -> HitRating
Wrists : MasteryRating -> HitRating
Hands : CritRating -> ExpertiseRating
Ring1 : MasteryRating -> HitRating
Ring2 : MasteryRating -> HitRating
Back : MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
MainHand : MasteryRating -> HitRating
Ranged : MasteryRating -> HasteRating

Summary? Even with hc Flamescythe, you would have 1257 crit, 1371 haste and 1332 mastery after this reforging while having exactly 8% hit (961 raiting) and 26 expertise (781 raiting).

[MasterNewbie]

I'm looking at the last few upgrades that I can obtain, and it's becoming increasingly harder to keep hit/exp caps while keeping haste above mastery rating. Example, if I pick up Fandrals tonight, no matter what I do, I will either lose hit or exp cap, or mastery will be higher than haste rating. Which means Matrix is going to proc mastery randomly, which is really frustrating.

Edit: The only possible way I see of retaining haste as the top stat while keeping hit and expertise caps, is dropping Sinestra belt for the 378 one. I'm going to lose a socket, I'm going to lose the socket bonus, I'm going to lose 20 hit, but it is the only possible way I see to keep haste in front of mastery should I get a fandrals.

Edit #2: Doing the math on the belts, I'm going to lose 24 AGI going from Sinestra's to the BoE belt. But it's also going to give me 157 expertise rating to play with, which most likely means I'll gain a bit more haste. I don't like losing the AGI, but procing mastery on matrix isnt as great as guaranteed haste procs.

Allow me to make a suggestion. While you won't be at hit cap (50 short), it will let you keep everything else. Your random ring and wrists don't appear to be reforged (at least armory doesn't think so).

Assuming you come into possession of heroic Fandral's:

Fandral's: Mastery -> Hit
Wrists: Mastery -> Hit
372Ring: Mastery -> Crit (reforging to hit would put you over cap)

These three would give haste rating of 1383, mastery rating of 1429, crit rating of 1198.

This won't be sufficient to give you guaranteed haste proc, so change your +65 mastery hand enchant to +20 agi. DPS difference is neglibible.

Three above reforges (assuming they are available) plus the enchant change would put your stuff at 1383 haste, 1364 mastery, 1198 crit; basically guaranteeing haste proc.