1. #2181
    Deleted
    You are accusing me of bringing 10v25 man shit, but you are doing exactly the same thing. Actually it seems that in such discussions regarding boss tactics this comparison can't be avoided. Statistically said, chance of getting countdown by a healer are very close in 10- and 25-man, assuming 2 healers in 10- and 5 healers in 25-man.

  2. #2182
    So... 4/5 t12 is something that we want really fast?

    And for those who already know (Mihir?) how much You're increasing the duration of Bersker with the 4piece? Aprox?


    Thanks


    I am a menace to my own destiny.

  3. #2183
    Great guide. It should be a sticky

  4. #2184
    I have a strange problem that I'll need some help to solve.

    I finally got Domo's staff yesterday, heroic version too, and thought I'd plug my new stats in Mew to figure out how to tweak my reforging. So at first it tells me Haste is higher than ever which is no surprise cause I upgraded from normal Malevolence. I changed some reforges, try to keep Hit/Exp as high as I can without reforging to them (only 3T12 yet), try to get some Haste on every piece of gear, etc.

    Then I plugged my new numbers in Mew and it now tells me Haste has become my worst stat. I ran the sim a few times and every time without fail it is last (~1.08), with Hit/Exp on top (~1.28). Even weirder, I decided to put in 2000 Hit and Exp in my stats sheet, and it still tells me they're the best stats. Did I break Mew somehow?

    Sim parameters: 10k iterations, 360s fight duration with 20% random, reseed the RNG, and the rest default.
    Stats: 1.9k Haste, 1.4k Mastery, 1k Crit, 7.16% Hit, 5% Exp.
    And armory if it helps any: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...beast/advanced

    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    Last edited by Selverein; 2011-09-05 at 04:30 PM.

  5. #2185
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Thudin View Post
    And for those who already know (Mihir?) how much You're increasing the duration of Bersker with the 4piece? Aprox?
    Depending on crit rng, around 14 seconds if everything goes well enough. Your mileage may vary.

  6. #2186
    Quote Originally Posted by Selverein View Post
    I have a strange problem that I'll need some help to solve.

    I finally got Domo's staff yesterday, heroic version too, and thought I'd plug my new stats in Mew to figure out how to tweak my reforging. So at first it tells me Haste is higher than ever which is no surprise cause I upgraded from normal Malevolence. I changed some reforges, try to keep Hit/Exp as high as I can without reforging to them (only 3T12 yet), try to get some Haste on every piece of gear, etc.

    Then I plugged my new numbers in Mew and it now tells me Haste has become my worst stat. I ran the sim a few times and every time without fail it is last (~1.08), with Hit/Exp on top (~1.28). Even weirder, I decided to put in 2000 Hit and Exp in my stats sheet, and it still tells me they're the best stats. Did I break Mew somehow?

    Sim parameters: 10k iterations, 360s fight duration with 20% random, reseed the RNG, and the rest default.
    Stats: 1.9k Haste, 1.4k Mastery, 1k Crit, 7.16% Hit, 5% Exp.
    And armory if it helps any: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...beast/advanced

    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    Running with 2k+ haste has the risk of energy capping during haste procs/lust.

  7. #2187
    Quote Originally Posted by malloyevelyn110 View Post
    Great guide. It should be a sticky
    It is a sticky

  8. #2188
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterNewbie View Post
    Running with 2k+ haste has the risk of energy capping during haste procs/lust.
    I think with the aggresive FB "rotation" capping energy during zerk + lust + both haste trinket procs shouldn't be much of a problem even at this lvl of haste.

    ---------- Post added 2011-09-06 at 08:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Selverein View Post
    I have a strange problem that I'll need some help to solve.

    I finally got Domo's staff yesterday, heroic version too, and thought I'd plug my new stats in Mew to figure out how to tweak my reforging. So at first it tells me Haste is higher than ever which is no surprise cause I upgraded from normal Malevolence. I changed some reforges, try to keep Hit/Exp as high as I can without reforging to them (only 3T12 yet), try to get some Haste on every piece of gear, etc.

    Then I plugged my new numbers in Mew and it now tells me Haste has become my worst stat. I ran the sim a few times and every time without fail it is last (~1.08), with Hit/Exp on top (~1.28). Even weirder, I decided to put in 2000 Hit and Exp in my stats sheet, and it still tells me they're the best stats. Did I break Mew somehow?

    Sim parameters: 10k iterations, 360s fight duration with 20% random, reseed the RNG, and the rest default.
    Stats: 1.9k Haste, 1.4k Mastery, 1k Crit, 7.16% Hit, 5% Exp.
    And armory if it helps any: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...beast/advanced

    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    I'm just curious how many haste did you have when Mew told you it's your worst stat. I had over 1.9k at some point and it still told me it's my best stat with the weight over 1.40.
    And try to make the simulations more accurate by increasing number of iterations (i think in some post Mew author suggested 100k iterations), although i know it increases the calculations time...

  9. #2189
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekthelion View Post
    You are accusing me of bringing 10v25 man shit, but you are doing exactly the same thing. Actually it seems that in such discussions regarding boss tactics this comparison can't be avoided. Statistically said, chance of getting countdown by a healer are very close in 10- and 25-man, assuming 2 healers in 10- and 5 healers in 25-man.
    True story and no offence to 10man raiders/guilds but baleroc and Domo are faceroll on 10man hc compared to 25man. Also since you shouldn't take more than 13 stacks and that ticks around 40k with barkskin up(25 man version) means no reason to go bear form at all, unless your healers are really bad and got carried to hc achivs by rest doing everything to make easyer to them.

  10. #2190
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selverein View Post
    I have a strange problem that I'll need some help to solve.

    I finally got Domo's staff yesterday, heroic version too, and thought I'd plug my new stats in Mew to figure out how to tweak my reforging. So at first it tells me Haste is higher than ever which is no surprise cause I upgraded from normal Malevolence. I changed some reforges, try to keep Hit/Exp as high as I can without reforging to them (only 3T12 yet), try to get some Haste on every piece of gear, etc.

    Then I plugged my new numbers in Mew and it now tells me Haste has become my worst stat. I ran the sim a few times and every time without fail it is last (~1.08), with Hit/Exp on top (~1.28). Even weirder, I decided to put in 2000 Hit and Exp in my stats sheet, and it still tells me they're the best stats. Did I break Mew somehow?

    Sim parameters: 10k iterations, 360s fight duration with 20% random, reseed the RNG, and the rest default.
    Stats: 1.9k Haste, 1.4k Mastery, 1k Crit, 7.16% Hit, 5% Exp.
    And armory if it helps any: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...beast/advanced

    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    i still use hc malevolence, 2xT11 & 2xT12,

    I did ran mew whit 10K intertation it said haste was my best stat and mastery was 2nd both whit a 0.05% error
    so i wanted to try out reforging i substracted 300 mastery and added 300 haste and it showed mastey became better again and haste went dont on the list (again whit 0.05% error)

    i was surprised myzelf
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  11. #2191
    Guys what do u think about fiery claw? I cant make it not to drop after berserk and i loose all bonus. You guys worry about dropping fiery claw or it is not so important or making this debuff not to drop is just impossible?

  12. #2192
    Quote Originally Posted by Selverein View Post
    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    Yes there can be such a thing as too much haste. The more you put into one secondary stat (and out of other secondary stats) the more valuable those other stats get. So aside from possible capping your energy regen during berserk you could (at least theoretically) get to a point where your seemingly best secondary stat isn't the best stat anymore. But there is no simple answer to when this happens.

  13. #2193
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Caetes View Post
    Guys what do u think about fiery claw? I cant make it not to drop after berserk and i loose all bonus. You guys worry about dropping fiery claw or it is not so important or making this debuff not to drop is just impossible?
    I think you shouldn't bother more about fiery claws than "kewl, i get some bonus damage, nice!". And I don't understand, what do you mean by losing all bonus. I think there are more important things to worry about

  14. #2194
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    whenever you refrst a buff you also refresh it whit new stats so you do loose boneses
    Eitherway feiry claws is unaffected by such things as the remaining damage is added to the new dot so there is no problem in loosing it.
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  15. #2195
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekthelion View Post
    I think with the aggresive FB "rotation" capping energy during zerk + lust + both haste trinket procs shouldn't be much of a problem even at this lvl of haste.
    You might or might not. But the risk is there.

    When the stars align, there might be [too much haste] (bloodlust, DI, heroic hungerer and matrix haste procs on top of a haste-oriented reforging strategy). Let's say there is 2100 haste from gear, 1730 h-hungerer proc, ~1830 h-matrix haste proc (assuming the heroic tooltip is also incorrect and the actual buff is about 100 more than the hungerer like in normal). With those, DI, and bloodlust you'll be sitting at 21.2 energy per second.

    If you were to rake->shredx3->rip->shredx4->FB (assuming you've just popped TF with your berserk, so you'd want to refresh rake and rip is in there just because).

    For this sequence you'd need 17.5+21*3+15+21*4+12.5+(up to 25) = 192 energy (up to 217 energy). We have 10 abilities, so 10 seconds of 21.2 eps is 212 energy, and we will be using up to 217 energy.

    However, remove FB from the sequence, we have used ~180 energy over 9 seconds, at 21.2 eps you would have generated ~191 in that time period, so you would have had a net gain of 11 energy before FB, which may or may not energy cap you, depending on how much energy you had when you used TF.

  16. #2196
    Deleted
    (to Elunedra post): I know the rules of refreshing dots'n'stuff Just didn't know how they apply to fiery claws as the next appliations are added to the existing ones.[COLOR="red"]
    Last edited by mmoc44b6479242; 2011-09-06 at 01:52 PM.

  17. #2197
    Quote Originally Posted by Thudin View Post
    So... 4/5 t12 is something that we want really fast?

    And for those who already know (Mihir?) how much You're increasing the duration of Bersker with the 4piece? Aprox?


    Thanks
    Asking again :O!


    I am a menace to my own destiny.

  18. #2198
    Deleted
    for my last rangaros it was 3 uses with 107 seconds total, so it's around 36 seconds per Berserk. On BL i was able to get 40 seconds, but if you get more crits + OoC procs = more FB in short time so you can go even further.
    And yes: 4t12 is something you really want
    Last edited by mmoc44b6479242; 2011-09-06 at 01:57 PM.

  19. #2199
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekthelion View Post
    You are accusing me of bringing 10v25 man shit, but you are doing exactly the same thing. Actually it seems that in such discussions regarding boss tactics this comparison can't be avoided. Statistically said, chance of getting countdown by a healer are very close in 10- and 25-man, assuming 2 healers in 10- and 5 healers in 25-man.
    Ehh, how is me explaining how important it is to be able to solo a shard as easily as possible in 10-man "10v25 man shit". And 20% out of your healing force getting a 50% healing reduction versus 50% of your healing force, or rather either your full shard healing or tank healing force, is a big difference and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to understand that.

    >Macor

    You obviously didn't read my post. Please try again or just leave it.

  20. #2200
    Deleted
    Heh and yet another 10vs25 man shit (your words). It seems you need some pats on your shoulder and some good words like "Oh, how epic fight you struggle there in you raid group, you are so epic". Geeeeeez... and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to understand that. Now i just can't imagine what you want to achieve by that... anyway gl.

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