Oct 18 Raid Testing, Loot Update, Raid Videos, Blue Posts

[angael]

hahah DLC was great.

[Senaelanna]

The current heroics were not a joke until we started to outgear them badly.

Making tier gear so easy to get and allow people to upgrade to previous tier after each patch was the cause of this.

They were clearly hard when we started doing them, I remember wiping for hours on the Nexus boss in heroic mode while in my blue/green gear.

Unless Blzzard do like they did with ICC, some fight mecanism will kill you if you don't do that like dispelling necrotic plague or not moving from a missile on Mimiron, we will always end up outgearing everything.

Heroics were a complete joke from the first day of level 80. The fact that you wiped for "hours" on a boss in Nexus makes me think that you, or the people you were playing with, are quite possibly the worst wow players alive.

[theturn]

I found I have gotton really good at using the new holy power however my problem is when a shadow priest can put out the same HPS as us there is a problem there.

You need to watch the paragon vid. Its a pally healing. Him and the other pally are 4.5% higher than the next closest healer and miles ahead of the rest. He is doing aoe heal that is hitting for 2-3k a sec. NO class can do that. If anything by the look of that vid pally will continue to br the MOST OP healer in game.

[meroko]

that heal he does is on a 30 second cooldown...it's hardly a "great" aoe heal.

[Runicblood]

3.0:
Ret = Strum 1-5 repeatedly, throw in AW every now and then.
Prot = Taunt..9..6..9..6..9..6..9

Anyone who isn't brain dead were the ones complaining.

(quoting his quote, not him directly, too lazy to find the first post).

"Paladins were the funnest class to play in this game"
I lol'd. Your spelling and grammar makes you look quite young. Let me guess; male BE retribution pally?

"those who didn't have a clue how to play em properly."
Dude. Rets would spam the shiniest buttons as they come off CD. Prot would follow the same boring 969696969969 rotation, with the occasional CD, and holy would be spamming holy light, or flash of light (depending on the gem/spec setup), and /gasp, refreshing beacon, judgement buff, and the shield.


Also, I loved this.

There are paladins who are used to being overpowered, because frankly that's the way things were for a long time (again, metered by the fact that your niche was very narrow). For them, anything is going to feel like a nerf.

LOL!

[Zaerix]

Why do I have a feeling that Ghostcrawler just has a template he fills out whenever he sees Holy Paladin concerns and never reads their post?

I read the post fully. He didn't really address any of the guy's main concerns. From the sounds of it, Ghostcrawler basically said "Paladins have been overpowered for years because they could only heal one target no matter what. Now that they have very situational AE heals, we find it fine to drop a nuke on their main target healing."

I also really got a kick out of the last part of the OP's post:

Let me finish this by quoting Ghostcrawler.

"I was running Halls of Lightning with a paladin healer at the time, and he had no trouble keeping us alive and even emailed me that he couldn't understand why so many paladins were having trouble with it."

I've run Heroic Halls of Lightning as ret with 4 other melee dps and managed to keep everyone alive with an occasional Flash of Light. Does that mean that I can go in and raid heal as ret?

Did Ghostcrawler seriously say that his main reason for thinking Holy Paladins are fine is that one guy in one old instance said they were?

Edit: Also, regarding the AE heal that we're getting at 85... Well for one we still have months before we can even START getting to 85 so fix stuff now por favor, and for two I doubt that the strength will last seeing as how everyone always says "It does 2-3k per second, no other class can do that."

All Blizzard ever seems to notice is "2-3k per sec" and "no other class" and runs with the nerfs.

[potentiality]

that heal he does is on a 30 second cooldown...it's hardly a "great" aoe heal.

pallys are out healing by over 5-7% using holy radiance which is a 1 min CD and hits everyone in the raid for well over 3k its op

[theturn]

that heal he does is on a 30 second cooldown...it's hardly a "great" aoe heal.

Well lets take a druid. They used to be the best raid healer. We have two aoe heals. One is on a 10 sec cd the other 15. WG hits for about 1k and drops to about 750, efflorescence hits for about 700 or less depending on swiftmend. That heal is hitting for 2-3k thats 3x more powerful than the most powerful druid heal. Now druids won't be able to spam WG on cd but that pally was able to spam his so im guessing mana wasn't an issue for him. And look at the healing meters. Both pally were even they blew away everyone else.

---------- Post added 2010-10-18 at 07:21 PM ----------

Why do I have a feeling that Ghostcrawler just has a template he fills out whenever he sees Holy Paladin concerns and never reads their post?

I read the post fully. He didn't really address any of the guy's main concerns. From the sounds of it, Ghostcrawler basically said "Paladins have been overpowered for years because they could only heal one target no matter what. Now that they have very situational AE heals, we find it fine to drop a nuke on their main target healing."

I also really got a kick out of the last part of the OP's post:



Did Ghostcrawler seriously say that his main reason for thinking Holy Paladins are fine is that one guy in one old instance said they were?

Edit: Also, regarding the AE heal that we're getting at 85... Well for one we still have months before we can even START getting to 85 so fix stuff now por favor, and for two I doubt that the strength will last seeing as how everyone always says "It does 2-3k per second, no other class can do that."

All Blizzard ever seems to notice is "2-3k per sec" and "no other class" and runs with the nerfs.

Did you even watch the vids?

[littlevamp78]

Did you even watch the vids?

But non of that stuff applies to us at 80, I am not playing cata for two more months I am playing LIVE right now.

[Deleted]

This is amazing.

I've been waiting for an Blizzard post to say "Paladins are/were Overpowered" since the launch of S5 when I was playing Warrior/Shaman vs DK/Paladin and I get Ghostcrawler saying it twice in a single post.

This truly does bring tears to me eyes. You know it was bad when even Druids didn't have an official blizzard poster saying "Druids were Overpowered" for S3/S4.

Anyway, videos look good.

[gimmemore]

Well lets take a druid. They used to be the best raid healer. We have two aoe heals. One is on a 10 sec cd the other 15. WG hits for about 1k and drops to about 750, efflorescence hits for about 700 or less depending on swiftmend. That heal is hitting for 2-3k thats 3x more powerful than the most powerful druid heal. Now druids won't be able to spam WG on cd but that pally was able to spam his so im guessing mana wasn't an issue for him. And look at the healing meters. Both pally were even they blew away everyone else.

---------- Post added 2010-10-18 at 07:21 PM ----------



Did you even watch the vids?

OK im going to play your game. So lets compare both spells. Im using the same facts that your using. As you said, Wg heals for 700-1k per sec and has a 10 sec cooldown.Now healing hands heals for 2-3k and has a 30 cooldown. LOL so basically (1k+10ses cd) VS (2-3k vs 30 sec) In terms of HPS, ITS THE SAME since you can cast 3 WG by the time a pally cast 1 healing hands. That also mean that druid will have a slighter edge on fight where you got constant aoe dmg and pally will have an advantage on fight where you have periodic aoe dmg. On the mana issue part, let me tell you that casting healing hands is costly, the pally was oom at the end.

And while we are at it, let me remind you that WG is a smart heal and got a 30y range, all you gotta do is press the button, and it heals the 5 most injured targets. Thats some very effective (and easy) healing. On the other hand, healing hand got a 20y range and requires good positioning to be effective. Same goes for light of dawn (even more i would say).

[engrey]

But non of that stuff applies to us at 80, I am not playing cata for two more months I am playing LIVE right now.

Did you not play from Vanilla to TBC? They did the same thing, release class changes before an expansion/major update. This way things can get tuned, also keeping in mind that the class changes and really balance in general is not for level 80 but for 85.

I agree with GC on this one, Paladin healing has gone back to being some what situational, now it was not life or death in vanilla but it was deferentially not the spam fest you have toady. I understand people do not like change but people really should take the change in stride, since you will either adapt or suffer. Blizzard is not going to go back to Wrath healing, the encounters and classes have already been changed and balanced for that play style. While some spells or your way of healing may not work right now, it is better to learn then to complain for two months about some major featuers that will not go away. Paladins have more spells to use, you need to be smart and think about what to use and when, spamming HL/FoL or HS will not due, as that will burn your mana quickly.

While you may pay to play on the live servers you also pay for the content updates, the patches, the changes and to access the games. If you do not like said changes you can always vote with your wallet, or you can learn to adamant and play differently. I do not know anyone who would really want to go back to either HL/FoS with cleanse, or FoL spam for another expansion and another two-three years.

[littlevamp78]

Hardly any of the ppl complaining want it changed back, the new system is rather nice once you get used to it. What we want is to be viable players at 80. The numbers are way too low and saying they get better at 85 doesn't help us now when we are trying to play as 80s now and not 85s.

[Alayea]

Heroics were a complete joke from the first day of level 80. The fact that you wiped for "hours" on a boss in Nexus makes me think that you, or the people you were playing with, are quite possibly the worst wow players alive.

I don't think all that highly of people who use a personal attack to counter someone's differing point of view on a matter.

Heroics were not "a complete joke" from day one. Perhaps those who were in Sunwell gear didn't have to worry, but we need to remember that that did not constitute a majority number of players. Not even close.

In my personal experience, I hit 80 while still wearing the majority of my Merciless Gladiator set and loot from Karazhan. I did a few 80 regular dungeons to get some better gear before going into heroics. When I was pugging heroics, I'd usually inspect others' gear because I wanted to see if there'd be any significant issues ahead of time. From what I can recall of those times, most pugs were decently geared for the content we were attempting.

All that being established, let me tell you that doing lvl 80 heroics was indeed a challenge. The Brann event in HoS was a healing nightmare, kiting Slad'ran was mandatory in GD (and it really sucked if you had no hunter), Mage-Lord Urom's arcane explosion would 1-shot a person most of the time (if standing in the frost didn't kill him/her first), jumping during the Keristrasza fight was required, you had to run out of Loken's lightning nova... You may be the greatest player of all-time, Senaelanna, but in pure statistics you are only a very small number out of the total. That's not how balancing works.

[Deleted]

Did you not play from Vanilla to TBC? They did the same thing, release class changes before an expansion/major update. This way things can get tuned, also keeping in mind that the class changes and really balance in general is not for level 80 but for 85.

I agree with GC on this one, Paladin healing has gone back to being some what situational, now it was not life or death in vanilla but it was deferentially not the spam fest you have toady. I understand people do not like change but people really should take the change in stride, since you will either adapt or suffer. Blizzard is not going to go back to Wrath healing, the encounters and classes have already been changed and balanced for that play style. While some spells or your way of healing may not work right now, it is better to learn then to complain for two months about some major featuers that will not go away. Paladins have more spells to use, you need to be smart and think about what to use and when, spamming HL/FoL or HS will not due, as that will burn your mana quickly.

While you may pay to play on the live servers you also pay for the content updates, the patches, the changes and to access the games. If you do not like said changes you can always vote with your wallet, or you can learn to adamant and play differently. I do not know anyone who would really want to go back to either HL/FoS with cleanse, or FoL spam for another expansion and another two-three years.

Omg, you srsly dont get the point? ppl arnt QQ about the changes... they are QQ about changes nerfing us to be shit by beeing pallys not beeing shit by playing bad. and as you said its tuned for lvl 85 which i dont give a damn about cuz i cant get there anytime sooner than 7 december... and theres nothing to learn if im not 85... all our skills is tuned for cata...

they already fixed resilienceece which was tuned for 85 same with feral / furry / mage / spriest dps.. for gods sake tune some numbers up for holy palas...

And please dont fcking speculate on what is / should be if u dont actualy play a hpaly as main... The changes are great but the numbers they are turning out atm isnt... hell i even love blizzard for letting us do some dmg as holy.. i can now do my quests / dungeons faster with shocks / exsorcism... healing numbers on the other hand makes me wanna cry

[littlevamp78]

omg, you srsly dont get the point? Ppl arnt qq about the changes... They are qq about changes nerfing us to be shit by beeing pallys not beeing shit by playing bad. And as you said its tuned for lvl 85 which i dont give a damn about cuz i cant get there anytime sooner than 7 december... And theres nothing to learn if im not 85... All our skills is tuned for cata...

They already fixed resilece which was tuned for 85 same with feral / furry / mage / spriest dps.. For gods sake tune some numbers up for holy palas...

And please dont fcking speculate on what is / should be if u dont actualy play a hpaly as main... The changes are great but the numbers they are turning out atm isnt... Hell i even love blizzard for letting us do some dmg as holy.. I can now do my quests / dungeons faster with shocks / exsorcism... Healing numbers on the other hand makes me wanna cry

this x10000

[skylla05]

(quoting his quote, not him directly, too lazy to find the first post).

"Paladins were the funnest class to play in this game"
I lol'd. Your spelling and grammar makes you look quite young. Let me guess; male BE retribution pally?

Because saying things like "I lol'd" and then proceeding to nitpick the term funnest is the beacon of maturity and intelligence, right?

[engrey]

Hardly any of the ppl complaining want it changed back, the new system is rather nice once you get used to it. What we want is to be viable players at 80. The numbers are way too low and saying they get better at 85 doesn't help us now when we are trying to play as 80s now and not 85s.

You have had the last two years and three months to play at level 80, now if you mean ICC and are trying to kill Arthas then yes I can see your point. However also given that ICC (Mainly the Frostwing Hall) has been open since February and that gives another eight months to complete the content there should be little excuses. Even with a 30% buff if people are still struggling that is player issue not a mechanic and game issue. However is the fight impossible with the new changes? No, does it make it more difficult to manage? Yes. However people have killed Arthas recently even with 4.0 out, so again even with the changes you can complete all of the content. Though you have had plenty of time to do so before.

[fishz]

You have had the last two years and three months to play at level 80, now if you mean ICC and are trying to kill Arthas then yes I can see your point. However also given that ICC (Mainly the Frostwing Hall) has been open since February and that gives another eight months to complete the content there should be little excuses. Even with a 30% buff if people are still struggling that is player issue not a mechanic and game issue. However is the fight impossible with the new changes? No, does it make it more difficult to manage? Yes. However people have killed Arthas recently even with 4.0 out, so again even with the changes you can complete all of the content. Though you have had plenty of time to do so before.

He's saying that we still have two months until Cataclysm and we still want to be able to raid. Right now, Holy Paladins are just warming the bench up. Our HPS/HPM is not even close to any of other healing classes right now. I know guilds that just sat out Holy Paladins because they are a burden to progression, and they obviously know it. There's no more point in bringing a gimped healer to your raid.

I recommend you guys to read the full thread before posting.

[Snes]

I don't think all that highly of people who use a personal attack to counter someone's differing point of view on a matter.

He probably just didn't hit 80 until 3.2 when he started off heroics by running with geared groups as DPS or something, and thus doesn't get it. By no means were wrath heroics difficult when compared to TBC heroics, but they were a gear check for people at the start and did cause some wipes as a result of that.