Ice Lance

[allrightythen]

i like how we have multiple beta players (im guessing they are and not lying) and both saying drastically different things about mage pvp.

hmm

[Swizzle]

Word of glory doesn't cost mana. It costs holy power. Blessed life gives you 1 holy power everytime you are struck by a attack. 2 sec cd. Basicly. You tunnel him. He spams word of glory. You do 0 pressure and he isn't even losing mana.

Yes blessed life is a really broken talent. Not the class.

Not the class, sure, but holy is definitely going to be broken if some things don't get changed. My room mate got into beta recently and he let me try out a premade paladin (fucker wouldn't let me copy a mage). If people are concerned about mages just spamming ice lance to victory...wait till they see Holy Shock+Word of Glory spamming holy paladins.

[Skarrd]

Not the class, sure, but holy is definitely going to be broken if some things don't get changed. My room mate got into beta recently and he let me try out a premade paladin (fucker wouldn't let me copy a mage). If people are concerned about mages just spamming ice lance to victory...wait till they see Holy Shock+Word of Glory spamming holy paladins.

It's only effective when you actually focus the holy pally, which is the one weakness. It will be a problem but I don't need it needs as much of a nerf as it may seem to need. You only generate holy power through holy shock on a 6 second cooldown, by being hit with direct damage via that talent (2s ICD), or by healing your beacon target with your casted heals. If you aren't being focus and not casting, you'll get a 3pt WoG every 18 seconds. If you're healing other players you are going to have to cast occasionally.

I could see this being a problem in 2's and 3's arenas, but not so much in 5's or rated BG's. I don't think it needs a big change, perhaps a slight ICD change to 3 or 4s would be fine imo.

[cfeuer1]

I'm hitting roughly 11k with it on Frozen targets, even more so when I've got mirror image popped. It's really nice on PvE, but on PvP against non-resilience targets, it's way OP.

what isn't op against somebody with no resil..

[Swizzle]

It's only effective when you actually focus the holy pally, which is the one weakness. It will be a problem but I don't need it needs as much of a nerf as it may seem to need. You only generate holy power through holy shock on a 6 second cooldown, by being hit with direct damage via that talent (2s ICD), or by healing your beacon target with your casted heals. If you aren't being focus and not casting, you'll get a 3pt WoG every 18 seconds. If you're healing other players you are going to have to cast occasionally.

I could see this being a problem in 2's and 3's arenas, but not so much in 5's or rated BG's. I don't think it needs a big change, perhaps a slight ICD change to 3 or 4s would be fine imo.

My point wasn't so much that Holy paladins were awesome sauce PvP healers when viewed on a group basis, but they do seem nigh invincible when they are the kill target. They feel like they did before the Illumination and Divine Plea nerf back in S5, which is NOT a good thing.

[Disfigured]

I got killed today by a Wrathful geared frostmage spamming nothing but ice lance. I'm a 1360 resi full Wrathful + T2 weapon warrior and I just saw 4x 6k+ icelance crits (that's 24k damage mind you) in one deep freeze, raping me. After I got out, he apparently got some FoF procs because the only thing he did was spamming icelance and they all critted. Now ofcourse I could pop shieldwall and enraged regen, but for what reason? My Mortal Strikes barely gets through his shield and good (or even decent) mages always jump my charges/intercepts and nova me afterwards, so I would've died in his next deep freeze anyway before even hitting him a bit. It's hard to get in melee range. Don't forget the elemental who's frostbolts hit me for 1.500+ every time (that's alot combined with the icelance burst). I'm not the guy to nerdrage but that duel really made me realize frost mages are in the worst place they've ever been in. I calmed myself down (lol I'm such a nerd) by thinking it'll all be better at 85, and yes it will be, but I just got a 3 month subscription so I'd like to enjoy the coming months 'til Cataclysm.. Oh well. At least I can beat fire mages.

tl/dr: Ice Lance is OP.

[Swizzle]

I got killed today by a Wrathful geared frostmage spamming nothing but ice lance. I'm a 1360 resi full Wrathful + T2 weapon warrior and I just saw 4x 6k+ icelance crits (that's 24k damage mind you) in one deep freeze, raping me. After I got out, he apparently got some FoF procs because the only thing he did was spamming icelance and they all critted. Now ofcourse I could pop shieldwall and enraged regen, but for what reason? My Mortal Strikes barely gets through his shield and good (or even decent) mages always jump my charges/intercepts and nova me afterwards, so I would've died in his next deep freeze anyway before even hitting him a bit. It's hard to get in melee range. Don't forget the elemental who's frostbolts hit me for 1.500+ every time (that's alot combined with the icelance burst). I'm not the guy to nerdrage but that duel really made me realize frost mages are in the worst place they've ever been in. I calmed myself down (lol I'm such a nerd) by thinking it'll all be better at 85, and yes it will be, but I just got a 3 month subscription so I'd like to enjoy the coming months 'til Cataclysm.. Oh well. At least I can beat fire mages.

tl/dr: Ice Lance is OP.

At 80. At 85, my premade Holy Pali loves seeing nothing but Ice Lance fly at her. Why? It does piss poor damage since it scales very poorly with spellpower (should be of no surprise to anyone who knows it's coefficient), and it doesn't add a MS effect. I've yet to lose a single duel to any mage on beta, but frost is by far the easiest to beat (I've only dueled three mages though, two frost and one fire...which was harder to beat than frost due to the sheer amount of shit he had rolling at once, but it fed me nice holy power so again no problem).

[Disfigured]

Yeah, you're right, it's only at 80. But I'm still 80 for more than a month. And I wanna rape frostmages like I did before this patch!

[Swizzle]

Do what I'm doing an level a ShS rogue. Mucho Funo.

[Multigasm]

@Disfigured : at 80 I will agree Warriors have no chance against a frost mage. I dueled a Wrathful warrior in my furious mage gear and also killed him in 1 deepfreeze with all ice lance crits. Just look forward to 85 when you can throw down charge crit the hell out of us lol.

[Whyhello]

Yeah...I'm sorry guys, but if you go into a pure 1v1 situation where both of you have all your cooldowns, and you lose to a mage just spamming ice lance, YOU need fixing, not ice lance.

There is a whole lot of you screaming, "I HAVE 1500 RESILIENCE AND GOT HIT FOR 20K", and it's really, really stupid (aka a lie). It's been said a thousand times and I'll say it again, wait until cataclysm, don't whine now when it's obviously not balanced. Beta is a lot more balanced than live right now...not quite there yet, but it's Beta.

[doomstriker]

Yes, frostbolt that hit for about 3k, and were used just for a snare.

And by decent, I mean 2,3k+ players. Great? Of course not, but it's not like I'm rolling undergeared scrubs.

If your killing healers as frost, more power to ya. I still think ice lance should get a major nerf and frost's old playstyle of frostbolt nuking and running should return.

No offense kid, but someone not even close to getting a 2200 weapon doesn't get to speak for the Mage community in terms of PvP. Look on the bright side, spam Ice Lance since you think it's soooooo OP and you might break 1900 in S9


Arenas played - 1385 <-- ouch Xiun, that's a lot of games played to remain so mediocre
Highest 5 man personal rating - 1500
Highest 3 man personal rating - 1859

[Valdorick]

So, I read through this entire thread, and I can't help but notice that most of the people saying Icelance spam is OP are mostly going by their 1v1 experiences. I will remind everyone that Blizzard could give two craps about 1v1 balance, and that if, in a BG, you in fact are in a 1v1 situation, both of you need to stop being BG heroes.

Now, I would fully understand Icelance being called OP if, with a healer behind you and all three of you being in PvP gear, you die before a heal goes off. Or the mage manages to solo both you and your healer... with nothing but Icelance Spam. So the question here is, too all you people saying that in a BG, you died to a mage by Icelance spam... Why the bloody hell are you not running around with the healer!?

[Potato Bus]

I'm inclined to say that IL spam would not be sufficient to decimate people in BGs. I have no real experience to counter this, though, as I've been either Fire in BGs or playing Frost the way it was meant to be played. I'm going to test this though by only using IL and Deep Freeze with WE-Freeze, Ice Nova, and Imp CoC and see how it goes. Absolutely no Frostbolt casts or Imp Blizzard, or anything else (OK, I *might* use BF-FFB). I'm not an exceptional PVP'er, so if this is truly as faceroll-OP as everyone here has made it out to be, I should be fairly well off. If not, I'll probably get rolled like never before.

[Deleted]

I like how the majority of people whining about this for pvp have 0 resiliance or pvp experiance,they're just after the now easy obtainable wrathful gear through bg's. Get some pvp gear and then come back and try again

[Saverem]

Ice Lance is indeed extremely broken, but for some reason I can't seem to kill Warlocks, Priests, Druids (and many other classes) when they're wearing PvP gear!

If you can't kill Locks as a Mage, then you're doing something wrong.

Right now, I don't think there is a single class that can kill a SP 1v1, so I'll give you that one. You should still be able to kill a Disc/Holy Priest though, Spell Steal and CS is your friend.

You should be able to kill a Moonkin, but Feral will probably own you. A good Resto will be hard to take down, but I doubt they can kill you back either.


Frost and Fire Mages are a little too good in PvP atm, I agree that they need to tone down Ice Lance, 12k crits for an instant, spammable (yes, I know the big numbers are only from Frozen targets, but that's not hard to get as a Mage), virtually mana-free spell is a little OP. I think there are 2 possibilities for a fix here:

1: Reduce Ice Lance's damage by 15-25% on frozen targets.

or

2: Reduce the frequency at which a Mage can freeze a target. Right now, they have tons of ways they can freeze a target.



I doubt any Mage would take option 2 over 1 though.

[Deleted]

It does high damage with no cooldown and no way of stopping it but a full out CC. It makes frost mages faceroll, and there is no reason to cast frostbolt anymore, reducing the risk of getting caught in a cast. On top of the unavoidable damage, frost still has it's insane survivability and control.

Frost is amazingly broken right now, and I have a feeling it won't change come 85.

Damn dude, you sure you even know what a mage looks like? because from that statement i would assume you never even seen one, nor have ever played one.

[Fishman]

I've gotten hit for up to 9k Icelances sitting at 1400 resi. They are usually between 7-9k crits. Does this need fixing? -YES

[Deleted]

Well i never saw a class that admits he is op, this is that case, mages will never say its op but IT IS. But as blizzard said this is design for lvl 85, so hopefully then we will not get killed by ice lance spammers :P