Gratz CoL.Red

[Deleted]

Yeah, must feel great to be the "true" winners.

I'd rather take the cash than be "true" winner. Oh well, at least the right continent won

[Naraga]

coL.red are the true winners of blizzcon 2010

Why is the team that rolls a counter comp, and still loses the true winner of blizzcon according to you?

Also, Reckful is obviously biased, seeing as he used to be part of col.red.

[trice]

This game isnt even an esport, so why are you all complaining? The balance sux balls, you cant call a game without any balance at all an esport.

[K4ge]

Ah yes, "skillcap". The buzz word people use on these forums to make it sound like they have a grasp on PvP. Ele shaman and resto shaman play nearly the exact same way. Yet ele's skillcap is "low" and resto's skillcap is "high" according to people on these forums.

Rogues are, by far, the absolute lowest skillcap class that has ever existed in WoW. You can try to argue it as much as you want, but when you can fuck up as much as the rogues on the two RLSes at MLG Raleigh and STILL win a tournament, something is severely imbalanced with the class. No other class or spec can get away with as many positioning errors or as many cooldown overlaps as rogues and still win. Or go back and watch Team Dignitas at Raleigh struggle against any RLS (haha, RMP losing to RLS, that's cute) because Hydra constantly fears while tremor is still down. Yet, if Team Dignitas had won, everyone would be calling them the greatest shit ever, despite not being able to properly handle tremor totems.

If you truly think that ele has the lowest skillcap, then you're incapable of understanding what the term "skillcap" means.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

way to be a 2k rated lsd elemental shaman struggling to find totems in the totem ui if you could simply bind them.
Elemental is such a fucking easy spec, I don't even have words for it.
In this wizard infested season a SINGLE cooldown or positioning error will lead to a rogue swift demise. Trust me, I've played a lot of classes live and tr and rogue is the only class that you can blow up in a single shadowfury, deathcoil or whatever the fuck else.
(MLG raleigh was played in s5 gear where affliction teams have an edge over burstcomps such as rmp)

Oh and 75k prize money kind of do make it an esport. Regardless of balance.

The reason col.red are the true winners, is because MLD only counters LSD on live. As soon as the lsd can roll full defensive gear because they know what's coming up... well tough shit MLD. Shit ain't dying to burst anymore.
Especially if the lsd decides to turtle it out and win on affliction damage (which isn't viable in the least on live because then both teams would get -16)
If the lsd plays to get kills then yes, an mld should win because they cn exploit the lsd's mistakes. However, if they play the way they did (super defensive, not even trying to get kills) then an mld just does not have an opening to kill something in.

[Gangresnake]

Ah, so you're one of those people who not only knows literally nothing about ele and resto playstyles, but you also use the word "skillcap" incorrectly. I think you're in the wrong section of the forums. This is the PvP section, not the PvE section, because you clearly know nothing about PvP.

Keep calling other people noob and telling yourself that you know everything, there is no way you won't success.

[Posokhov]

Keep calling other people noob and telling yourself that you know everything, there is no way you won't success.

Look, if you don't want to be called a noob, having one iota of knowledge on the topic you're talking in helps. I realize hating elemental shaman is trendy, but, to be blunt, Hrk is one of the best players in the world.

Oh, and here's another thing:
If ele shaman is "so easy to play", why is it that at every single MLG tournament, the teams that can field a massive array of comps never, ever bring an ele shaman? I mean, they're "overpowered" and have a horrendously low skill cap, so why not? It must be beneath them to play a class that is so broken and so easy to play, eh?

But no, ele shaman is easy, and resto shaman is hard, despite playing the exact same. You're using the age old "they are easy to play because I die to them" adage.

---------- Post added 2010-10-25 at 11:12 PM ----------

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

way to be a 2k rated lsd elemental shaman struggling to find totems in the totem ui if you could simply bind them.
Elemental is such a fucking easy spec, I don't even have words for it.

Yep, looking for totems in the totem UI. Totally... Way to be a 1900 rogue in an RMP who thinks FoK builds comp points and spams it in matches, then wonders why his team loses.

In this wizard infested season a SINGLE cooldown or positioning error will lead to a rogue swift demise. Trust me, I've played a lot of classes live and tr and rogue is the only class that you can blow up in a single shadowfury, deathcoil or whatever the fuck else.
(MLG raleigh was played in s5 gear where affliction teams have an edge over burstcomps such as rmp)

2 things:
1.) Ele shaman were blown up just as easy as rogues were. Get a shaman out of position with a single fear, you just scored a kill. If it wasn't for the PvE trinkets that aAa was running of triple bauble, Hrk was dead every match.
2.) MLG Raleigh was played in S8 gear.

Oh and 75k prize money kind of do make it an esport. Regardless of balance.

Ok? Not sure how that's relevant to my comments, but Ok.

The reason col.red are the true winners, is because MLD only counters LSD on live. As soon as the lsd can roll full defensive gear because they know what's coming up... well tough shit MLD. Shit ain't dying to burst anymore.
Especially if the lsd decides to turtle it out and win on affliction damage (which isn't viable in the least on live because then both teams would get -16)
If the lsd plays to get kills then yes, an mld should win because they cn exploit the lsd's mistakes. However, if they play the way they did (super defensive, not even trying to get kills) then an mld just does not have an opening to kill something in.

So, what I get from this section is that we both agree that the damage dealt tie-breaker is a stupid rule. Sound about right?

[Gangresnake]

Look, if you don't want to be called a noob, having one iota of knowledge on the topic you're talking in helps. I realize hating elemental shaman is trendy, but, to be blunt, Hrk is one of the best players in the world.

Oh, and here's another thing:
If ele shaman is "so easy to play", why is it that at every single MLG tournament, the teams that can field a massive array of comps never, ever bring an ele shaman? I mean, they're "overpowered" and have a horrendously low skill cap, so why not? It must be beneath them to play a class that is so broken and so easy to play, eh?

But no, ele shaman is easy, and resto shaman is hard, despite playing the exact same. You're using the age old "they are easy to play because I die to them" adage.

No one is hating on the ele sham here, just saying they have the lowest skillcap, wich is not breaking news for most people, except you apparently.
I never said that the class was easy to play, and i dont know why you're talking about the MLG tournament. Feel free to clarify.
Never said that resto was hard, didnt even talked about the resto sham, except to state the obvious, wich is that Resto cham and Ele cham arent played the same way. At all.

[Posokhov]

No one is hating on the ele sham here, just saying they have the lowest skillcap, wich is not breaking news for most people, except you apparently.

It's not breaking news for most people?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ffortless-spec
Mages are listed as the "most effortless spec" (even though he meant class) according to that, with shaman being tied with druids for 4th. Rogues were second.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0-Arena-Rating
Shaman is 2nd hardest to get to 1800 arena rating, with paladin, druid, and rogue being the easiest. According to this poll, at least.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ing-what-class
Shaman were 6th in that poll. Rogues are #1.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ill-Challenged
Rogues win as the best melee class for the skill challenged.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...iest-pvp-class
Paladin first, rogue 2nd. Shaman? 9th.

None of these polls support your theory that "it's not breaking news to most people". It seems like it IS breaking news to most people because the majority of players don't classify shaman as the lowest skillcap spec and consider rogues and paladins much easier to play.

I never said that the class was easy to play, and i dont know why you're talking about the MLG tournament. Feel free to clarify.

I mentioned the MLG tournament because people constantly have a rogue set up and are able to play X + Rogue and Y + Rogue, but never X + Shaman or Y + Shaman. This is because rogues require the least amount of time and skill to get to the peak of their performance. Hence, "low skillcap".

Never said that resto was hard, didnt even talked about the resto sham, except to state the obvious, wich is that Resto cham and Ele cham arent played the same way. At all.

Except they do. I'm sorry that this is so hard for you to understand, but resto and elemental play the same way.

[Yooya]

Definitely an upset. I expected, hoped for, more out of Loaded/Skill-Capped and I was rooting for Col. Red at the end. I don't honestly believe AAA deserved the 75 thousand; Enigmaz was their star player, the rest playing well but not amazing, and Enigmaz didn't come close to Sodah in those final matches. It feels like the money, and the win, was just stolen from Col. Reds hand due to some silly rules.

I'm biased though... I personally don't like AAA because of that silly smirk that Enigmaz had on the whole of Blizzcon.

To the guy above me polls on MMO-Champion aren't the best way to make judgments on class balance; cite better sources. Also go watch Reckful, Woundman, and Satz then say its a low skill-cap.

[Gangresnake]

Nice to bring poll to prove your point, but MmoCh pvp section isnt that great for indeep arena analysis.
This otherwise, is :
http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=208290

So i was probably wrong when i was saying that "It's not breaking news for most people", i was talking about regular arena player, wich was obvious to me, since the discussion was about arena fight, but whatever, it is rectified now.

Also, there was 3 rogues and 8 teams at MLG, so they wasnt "constantly" having a rogue, and it have nothing to do with the "rogue skillcap", it's more about comps synergy, a rogue is essential to a RMP and a RLS. Analysing class representation at tournament to evaluate a class's power or skillcap is fail anyway.

Also, resto and ele dont play the same way at all, I am sorry.

[Deleted]

I didnt read all the posts but I guess this is relevant anyway
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everyone who says that coL.red was "the real winners" or they "deserved the win" or something like that can fuck them selves. aAa won by the rules and tournaments got rules for a reason. The both teams were very good, though... coL.red had a counter comp on RoV, so I guess aaa was abit better because they won anyway. The admins at blizzard fucked up with the draw time, IMO they owe coL.red and appoligy(spelling) for a really akward moment.

Nuff said

[K4ge]

Way to quote MMO-champion poles. Try Aj next time, elemental won with about 70% of votes there for being the most retarded.

Also elememental took 30% less damage in cc, wears heavy armor and shield and has it's own absorb as well as offheals and other bullshit.

Next: rogues low skillcap... Hm, interesting. Strangely enough every single class exept elemental shamsn themselves (and actually most elemental shamans that used to be resto but rolled for free glad this season) concur with my analysis. Ask any top pvper that is neither a rogue or a shaman, to get a reasonably unbiased view.

Yes, damage dealt as a tie breaker is the most retarded rule ever.

Btw at blizzcon there was ONE ROGUE. Oh not only that, there were TWO MELEE CLASSES AT THE ENTIRE TOURNAMENT. And notice that even the teams at MLG that do have a rogue on their roster played the VAST majority without said rogue... EG, NS.Blue, coL.red
They almost always chose to play a wizardcleave instead of a rogue.

And just for the record: I was rated above 2500 this season with my rmp as dance. Which is about the equivalent of a 2700 elemental shaman. At least. I'll include a screenshot on friday or saturday, when I get home. Currently on my laptop at university in the dorms.

Resto and elemental play the same... hm, no sorry bro. I have an 80 shaman. Resto is actually quite hard to play. Whereas elemental shaman has the BY FAR highest efficiency if they just turret damage like a retard.

Furthermore: MLG tournaments are mostly about who has a big name, not who is great. It's the reason that dignitas always gets invited but aAa and LCA don't.

[Posokhov]

Way to quote MMO-champion poles. Try Aj next time, elemental won with about 70% of votes there for being the most retarded.

Link these polls, then.

Also elememental took 30% less damage in cc, wears heavy armor and shield and has it's own absorb as well as offheals and other bullshit.

And yet dies just as easily as a rogue does, even while taking 30% less damage.

Next: rogues low skillcap... Hm, interesting. Strangely enough every single class exept elemental shamsn themselves (and actually most elemental shamans that used to be resto but rolled for free glad this season) concur with my analysis. Ask any top pvper that is neither a rogue or a shaman, to get a reasonably unbiased view.

Strangely enough, before this season, everyone talked about how much of a joke rogues were to play and how people could teach a monkey how to play a rogue to its fullest. Nothing changed about rogue's playstyle since then. Their performance has decreased, their skillcap hasn't increased. Skillcap != performance. Otherwise that makes holy priests the highest skill cap healer in the game. Just a small tip: They aren't the highest skill cap. Resto shaman and disc priests are higher skill capped than resto druids or paladins. Paladins performed worse at tournaments this year than any of them, and druids performed better than any of them. Once again, skillcap != performance.

Skillcap refers to the absolute difference between the bottom of the barrel at a class/spec and the absolute cream of the crop for the class/spec.

Yes, damage dealt as a tie breaker is the most retarded rule ever.

First time we've agreed.

Btw at blizzcon there was ONE ROGUE. Oh not only that, there were TWO MELEE CLASSES AT THE ENTIRE TOURNAMENT. And notice that even the teams at MLG that do have a rogue on their roster played the VAST majority without said rogue... EG, NS.Blue, coL.red
They almost always chose to play a wizardcleave instead of a rogue.

4 melee. Taiwan had a warrior, protadin, and DK. Korea brought a rogue.

And just for the record: I was rated above 2500 this season with my rmp as dance. Which is about the equivalent of a 2700 elemental shaman. At least. I'll include a screenshot on friday or saturday, when I get home. Currently on my laptop at university in the dorms.

Equivalent to 2700? You wish. More around 2100.

Resto and elemental play the same... hm, no sorry bro. I have an 80 shaman. Resto is actually quite hard to play. Whereas elemental shaman has the BY FAR highest efficiency if they just turret damage like a retard.

Hm, yea, sorry bro. Ask Emcl or Hrk, both who have received glad as both resto and ele. Both have said that the majority of skills that make someone good at resto/ele can be directly translated to playing the opposite spec at a high level.

Oh, and grats on saying "resto is actually hard to play" when earlier in this thread I said, "People say that resto has a higher skill cap than elemental because resto is weaker than elemental. The people who say that are the same ones who don't understand what the word skillcap means".

And also, any caster is BY FAR at highest efficiency if they just turret damage like a retard. Let a destro lock stand back and turret damage and they'll make you pay. Let a frost mage stand back and turret damage and they'll make you pay. Stupid comment much?

Furthermore: MLG tournaments are mostly about who has a big name, not who is great. It's the reason that dignitas always gets invited but aAa and LCA don't.

The big name rule only applies to international teams.

[K4ge]

Fuck if I'll find those AJ poles again.
Whatever, I'm just gonna stop talking now, I'm bored with you. Actually not so much you, but every single 1300 rated resto that rerolled ele and suddenly found himself on 2200.

And I do understand skillcap. Mainly because the difference between a 1k elemental and a 2k elemental is the fact that the 2k elemental only clicks lava burst and doesn't have to look for it in his spell book

edit: actually, I think I'll just keep trolling you. Even though everybody except the eternally confused would agree with my godlike wisdom und unparalleled omniscience (yes, I know that doesn't work, shut up)

[Khanjin]

Well that's one thing I can understand why they don't include heals. Otherwise you'd get 'true' tri-heal teams (i.e. When the Stars Align but all healing specs) and they do nothing but heal to the draw.

Lol do you even think about what you're saying? You can't heal if you haven't taken any damage, thus making the healing equal to the damage done to you. And if you do some damage to the other team, they heal it up and equalizing it yet again...

[Grocery]

aAa won yes, but I hate the fact that they played to win on damage from the start. They intentionally just tunneled the pet because they knew a kill would not happen on them if they play defensive and spam damage to warlock pet. That is playing for the technicality rule(20 minute rule), and that is extremely boring.

Blizzard handled it terribly with the rules and the admin. They need a more strict setup, and a pve win is dumb. Might as well just put a dummy in the arena for aAa and see how much damage they can do.

[Deleted]

aAa won yes, but I hate the fact that they played to win on damage from the start. They intentionally just tunneled the pet because they knew a kill would not happen on them if they play defensive and spam damage to warlock pet. That is playing for the technicality rule(20 minute rule), and that is extremely boring.

Blizzard handled it terribly with the rules and the admin. They need a more strict setup, and a pve win is dumb. Might as well just put a dummy in the arena for aAa and see how much damage they can do.

They had to play with damage because coL.red had their counter comp

[Deleted]

I watched the whole show and coml. red. truely deserved the win. It was stolen from them by some nerd who thought he was smart to point at the rules. Blizz bought it at their own show wich is hilarious. Why did the rules not count on the damage output?

[Posokhov]

Whatever, I'm just gonna stop talking now, I'm bored with you. Actually not so much you, but every single 1300 rated resto that rerolled ele and suddenly found himself on 2200.

Aren't you the rogue that joined nSK back in December of 2009 and left earlier this month that was 1248 rated at the end of S4 and only magically started breaking 2200 when Wrath came out and tunnel visioning became the depth of rogue skill? Yeah, you're one to talk about shaman magically breaking 2200... Totally... ^_^