1. #1

    Questions about Sub PvP

    Hey guys, couple quick questions.

    Leveling a sub rogue right now and plan on PvPing at 80. As far as weapon choices, what kind of set up does a Sub rogue use? Also, poisons. Which on which weapon? ;D Thanks yall.

  2. #2
    1.8 dagger mh, wound
    1.4 dagger oh, crippling
    Player: Vanish___________Server: No!
    Player: Preparation_______Server: Okay...
    Player: Vanish___________Server: I SAID NO DAMMIT!

  3. #3
    Anyone particular reason why? I've been trying to figure that out because my rogue is almost 80 but I've read sub wants a slow MH and fast OH

  4. #4
    I just saw a sub rogue with a 1.8 dagger mh and 2.6 fist oh. Is he just a scrub/noob/doesnt know whats best, or is there more to it?

  5. #5
    Not sure, I've gotten mixed answers when I tried to look it up. Some say two daggers, others say slow mh for bigger ambush hits but no one actually gives reasons, pros/cons etc

  6. #6
    As sub your OH doesnt really matter regarding weapon type, I use the wrathful sword OH cuz I like the look. You want a slower MH dagger for ambush damage, the speed of your OH doesnt really matter to much since theres no real talents that affect it but a faster one is preferable for poison procs, but it doesnt honestly affect the build to much.
    Ispamcharge-85-War Ispamfear-85-Lock
    Ispampurge-80-Shaman Ispamstuns-80-Rogue

    I'm always thinking one step ahead...
    like a carpenter that builds stairs.

  7. #7
    Well since you don't need a dagger for ambush anyone wouldn't it be better to get a slower weapon for bigger ambush hits?

  8. #8
    wound wound 1.8/1.8 or 1.8/2.x is for using waylay as your snare, since it's undispellable and a guaranteed application from bs, and doesn't need to be shiv'd on.
    edit: as to the above poster, you DO need a dagger for backstab, which is a far harder hitting spell than hemorrhage, and will be your primary cp builder outside of dance.

  9. #9
    Ambush damage normally is 275% damage plus 1001
    w/ a dagger its 398% plus 1449 damage
    im too lazy to do the math, but i assume the dagger is still better, plus you want a dagger for backstab as well you.
    Ispamcharge-85-War Ispamfear-85-Lock
    Ispampurge-80-Shaman Ispamstuns-80-Rogue

    I'm always thinking one step ahead...
    like a carpenter that builds stairs.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Goven View Post
    Well since you don't need a dagger for ambush anyone wouldn't it be better to get a slower weapon for bigger ambush hits?
    Well, first of all, look at the tooltips of Ambush and Hemorrhage. Both actually have higher values if a dagger is equipped, meaning the higher top-end damage on slow weapons doesn't apply that greatly. Subtlety is designed for both daggers and slow weapons, it's really your choice.
    The benefit daggers have, however, is that you can use Backstab which actually is a good ability if you get to position yourself (which isn't that hard).

    It's mostly all about preferences anyway, both work well enough.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by eylieen View Post
    wound wound 1.8/1.8 or 1.8/2.x is for using waylay as your snare, since it's undispellable and a guaranteed application from bs, and doesn't need to be shiv'd on.
    edit: as to the above poster, you DO need a dagger for backstab, which is a far harder hitting spell than hemorrhage, and will be your primary cp builder outside of dance.

    Okay, cool. Is this the optimal setup then? And I'm assuming outside of the MH dagger, OH doesn't matter then? And is Hemo even worth taking if not used? Also...glyphs? Sorry if these are simple questions. Just kinda new to the whole sub rogue pvp scene. Thanks again!

  12. #12
    Deleted
    When people use a fast OH it's for reduced shiv cost and quicker poison application, crippling is still a stronger snare than waylay, if you get snared and kited because crippling wasn't on and waylay is the same speed, you'll know why we use fast OH.

  13. #13
    So you suggest Slow/fast, both daggers with wound/crippling? Do you take Waylay then? What kind of build are we looking at?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Aettis View Post
    So you suggest Slow/fast, both daggers with wound/crippling? Do you take Waylay then? What kind of build are we looking at?
    Waylay or no Waylay is honestly up to you, but he's right about Crippling being superior to Waylay. You can avoid Waylay if you don't get yourself open to backstabs (during combat, after the first Waylay wears off) but it's damn hard to avoid Crippling Poison and Shiv Applications.

    Yes, you do want hemo. Glyphed Hemo demolishes rogues and it's still decent if you can't get behind a target to backstab. Also, by Glyphing Hemo and Speccing into Sanguinary Vein, you'll effectively increase your damage by 10% as long as the Hemo DoT persists. You won't rupture anyway.

    As for a build, go pick up the mandatory talents and then you'll end up with about 4 points to spend on Energic Recovery, Waylay, Iniative, Enveloping Shadows, Cheat Death and Serrated Blades.

    You can skip Serrated Blades (no need to rupture) and you probably want to put 3 into Energic Recovery to buff your Recuperate because it's just that damn good.

    Edit: If you go daggers, then yes, Slow MH/Fast OH.
    Last edited by Yuanrang; 2010-10-25 at 01:15 PM.

  15. #15
    Just go Mutilate for pvp..problem solved
    Quote Originally Posted by Ershiin View Post
    Oh.. My.. God..
    This is petty beyond belief.

    Why dont we start complaining about how M&Ms should be color coded while we're at it?
    Or how it should be called a Burger with Cheese because Cheeseburger is misleading?

  16. #16
    havent been on this site in a while but they use to provide pretty decent easy to understand info about rouges only
    shadowpanther.net
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukus View Post
    Just go Mutilate for pvp..problem solved
    Mutilate lacks mobility. Mutilate has 0 chances against a frost mage who knows wtf he's doing.
    Muti is mostly for dealing with heavy armor, it's not great at all against classes with cc.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Eater View Post
    Mutilate lacks mobility. Mutilate has 0 chances against a frost mage who knows wtf he's doing.
    Muti is mostly for dealing with heavy armor, it's not great at all against classes with cc.
    Have to agree on this. While Mutilate is still okay, it's not really comparable (in my eyes) to a Subtlety Rogue. If anything, the extended CDs of Blind, Vanish and Cloak of Shadows is enough to annoy the hell out of me, but not your mobility is plainly awful to boot compared to Subtlety, not to mention that Preparation is still extremely great to have.

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