Who else wants a new kara-like raid?

[years]

Thing about Karazhan was it took non-lore enemies like Moroes and Prince Malchezzar and made it so everyone knew their names, catchphrases, moves and everything years later. It just was an epic instance.

I'd like to see an instance where not every boss is massive, where the floor doesn't need to be covered in flames every other fight and where CC and bringing certain classes matter.

Naxx when I first saw it at 60, Scholomance, AQ40 and Kara all had that.

Indeed, I'd rather have a place that feels good overall, than a place where most focus went into making the bosses as "epic" as possible. Not that I find them epic, but that's what I feel like they're trying to do.

[gookslammer]

Spooky dark place > icey white place.

Everytime I level up and get into into TBC areas I look forward to flying being able to fly around, then I realize i'm closer to Northrend and I cry a little inside. I'm so tired of icey areas. I'm glad we are back to azeroth.

But I would love to see something similar to kara. I loved kara even when we screwed up on bosses we shouldn't have. The fights were so different and fun. The opera event was awesome, waiting and guess at what it would be. Having your mage keep fire on the scarecrow, having someone kite the tin man, running from the big bad wolf, cooordinating dps on romulo and juliet. Lining up in beams, running away from princes meteor things. It was a fun combination of a lot of different boss abilities... with unique looking bosses and multiple bosses in fights.

ICC = tank and spank, move a little, kill some adds sometimes, tank and spank, move more. No classes had to any chance to do anything special. No mechanics really that let dps stand out and be helpful.

BTW boss fights were dps do more then just race on the meters and dodge shit. More interesting boss mechanics were you can be that 'go to' guy that runs over and pulls the level or channels on the boss or sheeps the add. It's boring when the tanks just pick up everything and we just dance around like fairies.

Are you daft? Kara bosses weren't tank and spank? I assume you didn't raid past naxx.

[Soady]

Well i think kara was the best raid blizz made and i hope they will make a raid thats based on those encounters, like the chess boss DARN that was epic i jizzed all over my screen when i did that boss. Altso the little red riding hood in opera was nice and wizard thing it was fun and challenging the entire raid was always laugh trough the whole encounters but i was a big noob back them and i diden't raid so much i only wish they would make a new type of kara thats just as epic and i loved the insane nice music in there so coozy.

[windfurybot]

I loved kara. I had a bunch of alts at that level and me and my friend would do 4 karas in a day because it was so much fun.

Most of these newer dungeons aren't as impressive. ICC is massive but it's linear and as someone else pointed out, the bosses are only there to stall you getting to LK. art-wise, boss ability wise, etc, ICC is fine. Ulduar was the first of the super complicated fun-to-do boss fights (and hard modes for ulduar were awesome because it completely changed the fight, and besides OS, it was the first with mechanics like this).

But what I love about dungeons is the ability to explore them, not feel like i'm simply working from one boss to the next. Kara does this. you can take different paths to get to the same spot. you fight different mobs depending on which way you go. you can skip bosses. it was new and exciting as the opening expansion instance, sure, but the epicness of exploring it was what made it great. even the random books strewn about the library and the npc ghosts you could talk to, the lore there, the haunting past, it all made for a great instance.

BT i felt was similar. each boss was in their own little corner, or outside in the training grounds. it didn't feel like "i'm here to stall you" type bosses, it was more like "WTF who are you and why are you attacking me? i guess i'm going to have to kill you". You could explore, you could talk to the npcs and get an idea of the lore and just what had been lost there. In comparison the vanilla instances were similar (not the 40 man raids which were only massive to include 40 people, but the 5/10 mans and later, zg and aq20). Stratholme was massive, you could skip bosses, most people probably have never even seen the entirety of the zone. BRS was so big it was technically 2 instances, BRD could be completed in 2 or 3 different ways. bosses could be skipped. same with dire maul and it's 3 wings.

So yes, another Kara would be great. Kara crypts (i remember exploring it at level 60 from the ghost bug) or something is possible, but it wont happen. and now that they're further simplifying the vanilla instances to shorten them up (like sunken temple) it's sad that some of the great zones i spent hours in, reclearing mobs that had respawned during the 3 hour clears, will be gone. it would be fine if they replaced them with similarly epic zones in cata to do as a 5 man group, or even the 10/25 man raids, but we'll most likely be stuck with a lot more linear raids and instances so people can simply get in and get out with their loots.

[Phovos]

Oooh crypts of kara, im drooling too. Immagine if they changed the game, gave it a 16+ age rating, and made more horror-like raids. Man that would be so much fun. Make the game exciting again!

edit: Imagine walking down some small, crooked stairs into an underground filled with rotten corpses, huge spiders, beheaded people hanging from the roof. A pool of water that looks like... blood? Rats, spider-webs, and creepy sounds and music setting the mood for a REAL adventure. Oooh yeah

Kil jaeden, a 200 foot tall demon and destroyer of worlds wants to have a word with you.

[Lora]

The problem is: You don't want another Kara, you want to start raiding for the first time again. "Like a virgin, making love for the very first time..." You can never go back. Kara was a great raid, don't get me wrong, and I'm sure you would have enjoyed it thoroughly had it not been your first, but because it was your first it will always stand out as better and cooler than anything you do after.

Look at the things you liked about it:

1) It was challenging. Though you admit yourself that you were poorly geared and inexperienced. You also probably didn't have the resources available to watch videos of all the fights and read all the strategies. Once your skill and gear improved it was farmed. Like everything else. From the sounds of things you ran it post nerf. The raid wasn't, by that point, very hard at all. You were just new and undergeared. Anything will seem challenging in that situation (I'm not bashing you here, I'm sure you're a good player... Just saying that you're not likely to go into a raid so unprepared now... which means you'll probably never get that same level of challenge).

2) Spooky: ICC wasn't spooky? Of course it wasn't. It's all old hat now. I found Naxx damn spooky the first time I went in. Now it's all: "Where is boss. I needz weekly". The same with ICC. Step back and look at it with eyes that haven't seen every raid between Kara and it. It's actually pretty amazing. I've brought brand new raiders into their first ever raid in ICC. They're often stunned.

3) Amazingly designed bosses: Sure. They were some of the most complicated fights you'd ever done when all you'd ever done before was five mans. Most of them are relatively simple mechanics wise now. Any of the wing bosses in ICC is more complicated, LK is WAY more so. Most of Ulduar past XT was moreso. At the time the design seemed extremely complex, but you'd never been in a raid before.

Basically, there will never be another Kara, just as you will never have another first love. There might be another raid as good as Kara, but you won't be the wide eyed newb that first went in there to learn how to play endgame. Again, I'm not saying Kara wasn't a great raid. It was, but it's even better and more awesome in your memory. Most likely better than anything else ever will be.

You sir just saved me from my depression. Thank you. (actually serious)

[.viridis]

I find it hard to accept that I like Kara so much just because it was my first raid instance.

[Powerogue]

moar karazhan. it was the 2nd best thing I've ever raided next to ulduar. only complaint about ulduar is that, unlike karazhan, I never finished it. I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME YOGG, NEXT TIME!!

[Voltarius]

Hell Yes. Kara is my favorite instance of all times (my 3 chars must be 5 times exalted minimum there). I still do it at 80, alone or with whoever wants to join me. Never gets old.

[artemisthemp]

Thing about Karazhan was it took non-lore enemies like Moroes and Prince Malchezzar and made it so everyone knew their names, catchphrases, moves and everything years later. It just was an epic instance.

I'd like to see an instance where not every boss is massive, where the floor doesn't need to be covered in flames every other fight and where CC and bringing certain classes matter.

Naxx when I first saw it at 60, Scholomance, AQ40 and Kara all had that.

Moroes is a Lore character (Last Guardian).

He was butler for Medivh(Sargeress)