PvP compromise for Mind Spike

[Deleted]

So far it seems that blizzard doesn't want Mind Spike to be used in PvE. That's ok for me, Shadow Priests dps is quite fine. But here's a compromise: make a glyph that allows Shadow Word: Pain to stay on the target when we use Mind Spike. That way we can still benefit from our mastery, which is already quite useless, and shadowy apparitions and still have to make a choice between massive dottage and direct damage burst.

[Thrayne]

So far it seems that blizzard doesn't want Mind Spike to be used in PvE. That's ok for me, Shadow Priests dps is quite fine. But here's a compromise: make a glyph that allows Shadow Word: Pain to stay on the target when we use Mind Spike. That way we can still benefit from our mastery, which is already quite useless, and shadowy apparitions and still have to make a choice between massive dottage and direct damage burst.

Doesn't really solve the major problems of Mindspike.
Dispelling the DoTs take up alot of the pressure, so unless you kill them with Mindspike, it is a bit useless, but Mindspike isn't our execute. It would make more sense for SWD to dispell our DoTs for large amount of burst.

I think making MS generate SOs instead of consume them would have a much better synergy than the clunky mechanics it has now. You ramp them up into a mindblast, it would make msatery very good for Pvp with guarenteed MB crit + SOs. If they implemented this, dispelling of the DoTs mechanic would be ok by me.

For PvE they could add a high threat bonus to MS so it couldn't be used rotationally, but during DAA the threat modifier was removed so it could be used in correlation with other "burst" CDs.

This would solve alot of MindSpike's problems now.

[Direshadow]

Why didn't they change Mind Spike to cause high threat?

I mean that's half the reason I am very careful when I use Mind Control in PVE, the threat you get from the spell is insane and unless you have dispersion up, you're going to have some troubles.

[MoanaLisa]

Why didn't they change Mind Spike to cause high threat?

I mean that's half the reason I am very careful when I use Mind Control in PVE, the threat you get from the spell is insane and unless you have dispersion up, you're going to have some troubles.

They did. And then they changed it back. One of the issues with Mind Spike is that Blizz doesn't seem to be entirely certain of what they want it to be or do. Still looking for the sweet spot I guess.

[Deleted]

Doesn't really solve the major problems of Mindspike.
Dispelling the DoTs take up alot of the pressure, so unless you kill them with Mindspike, it is a bit useless, but Mindspike isn't our execute.

I agree that it doesn't solve the major problems of Mind Spike, but since other suggestions have already been given and no one made it into a beta build, i wanted to provide an alternative which is less powerful, but at least it doesn't destroy all of the new shadowpriest mechanics, aka shadow orbs and shadowy apparitions. You would make up for the loss of pressure with damage burst, as i said it's a choice you have to make. But mind me, i would prefer MS reverted to high threat as much as anyone else.

[Devanox]

Here's my point of view:

Mind spike, when it was first announced, seemed like an awesome ability. It had alot of synergy with paralysis and Mind Melt, besides giving spriests a way to cast when locked and letting the spriest finally be able to peel off of him/herself.

With the DoT wipe mechanic, it became a move used to try and finish someone off or peel melee off of someone else. If you were to try to peel a melee off of yourself, you would need to back up and reapply DoTs, which by then the melee would be on top of you again. Not only did this nerf the viability of a reliable snare for shadow, it makes this move entirely situational while also making our mastery even worse than it was to begin with.

I liked the original implementation way better because it made Spriest feel fresh and new while changing the playstyle of the spec (and increasing skillcap at the same time).

Now Mind Spike is entirely mundane and boring and honestly will see little use unless blizzard reverts/changes Mind spike again.

[Ananan]

They can't really let you keep the dots just like that. Then the spell has to do low enough damage that Mind Spike + dots doesn't make Shadow overpowered in PvP, and that in turn will mean that Mind Spike without dots will be crap (which will break the whole "add-just-spawned-and-needs-to-be-nuked-asap" use-case).

They tried to fix it by making Mind Flay proc all sorts of things, but it just didn't do the trick.

What they could do is perhaps something like "after getting a Shadow spell interrupted, Mind Spike doesn't clear dots for 10 seconds". I don't think they'll do it exactly like that because that would essentially mean that you'll take more damage if you manage to interrupt a shadow priest, which is a bit harsh. Something like it could be added though, or that effect could be tied to Archangel like other people have suggested around here before (but that has some more impact on PvE).

[Devanox]

With the way Mind Spike is now I'm seeing 3 possible uses,

1) x2 MS into instant MB Crit (RNG?) to peel off of your teammates.

2) Stack up evangelism, pop archangel to burst someone down with the same rotation as above.

3) Stack up MS buff for instant MB crit then hard swap to target when its snared in the open (with DoTs)

The problem is our mastery would make the first MS hit hard, and then the second MS and MB hit for garbage. Whats the point of a crit MB if it hits for half as much as the first x3 orbs MS?

Paralysis?

But then you're investing 4 talent points in a combo that is very situational at best. It's almost like the crit vs haste RNG argument.

Do you want reliability? or do your prefer the RnG Gods to lend you a hand every now and then?

We have to wait and see how PvP at 85 is when live Cata drops. Thats the only time when any real theory's can be made and have the backup to prove that it will work.

BTW Im perfectly fine if MS damage is lowered so we can get rid of the wipe dots, as long as Mastery gets fixed to say give a periodic damage increase as orbs stack and the MB damage increase if they are consumed. (Get rid of the MS damage increase)

[Ananan]

I think I'd do it like this - even if it'd take a little bit of balancing:

Mind Spike now always consumes one orb without dealing any more damage. If you had at least one orb it lets you keep your dots on the target, but if you didn't it'll still clear your dots. The spell still buffs the crit chance of the next Mind Blast and all the talents work as usual.

Think about it. Juggling orbs in PvP with that change would be quite interesting. When you get interrupted you can use as many Mind Spikes as you have orbs if you have dots up. If you're focused when you get interrupted you likely have orbs to spend from taking crits.

Against the raid boss it could be worth it to consume an orb with a Mind Spike if you get three orbs up quickly after a Mind Blast for the crit chance boost, when you think that you have time to generate a new one before Mind Blast comes off cooldown. I wouldn't mind that at all.

[Devanox]

I think I'd do it like this - even if it'd take a little bit of balancing:

Mind Spike now always consumes one orb without dealing any more damage. If you had at least one orb it lets you keep your dots on the target, but if you didn't it'll still clear your dots. The spell still buffs the crit chance of the next Mind Blast and all the talents work as usual.

Think about it. Juggling orbs in PvP with that change would be quite interesting. When you get interrupted you can use as many Mind Spikes as you have orbs if you have dots up. If you're focused when you get interrupted you likely have orbs to spend from taking crits.

I thats the case, i would assume that increasing the amount of orbs you can stack would be in order, say to around 5 stackable orbs. It would be simple to balance by merely lowering the amount of percentage each orb increases MB damage.

That way if you spend 2 orbs to MS the target, you will still have 3 orbs left to make sure your Instant MB crit hits like it should, which is to say hard.

Increasing the amount of orbs that can stack also means that when you do get focused your not wasting orbs that you could be gaining from crits taken.

Its a good idea and the balancing can be done. I would post this on the official priest forums and see how the responses are. Maybe the devs can start paying attention to mastery and Mind spike so we don't end up really gimpy when live cata drops.

[Noxia]

How about, lower mind spike damage and make it do extra damage when there are none of your dots present on the target? Or make mind spike do less damage when you have dots on the target, either way should work. No need for high threat or dot dispellage then and it won't replace mindflay as our main filler either. Nice and simple. It should remain as an useful ability in both pvp and pve as long as the damage is tuned properly.

[Kelesti]

It's a nice idea, Noxia. The problem is that then you have people trying to find the threshold, and working in "Well, this + this DoT still outweighs full DoTs" and it basically becomes a clusterfrak prone to balance "tweaking" (read: Failures) every single patch as Blizz is surprised by the community's ability to manipulate the playstyles.

The DoT removal really does something for itself, and quite frankly, I think it's fine where it is. Something that doesn't and never will replace Mind Flay (check), something that lets you CC (glyphed sheep says hi), check. It works for short lived targets without the "ZOMG AGGRO" issue, and it works in PvP if you're spell locked out, or are trying to finish a burst.

The whole "But it clears my dots and I do less damage", 'kay... you do less damage while counterspelled. Would you rather DoT pressure or burst pressure? Your choice. In regards to Devanox's post up there:

Whats the point of a crit MB if it hits for half as much as the first x3 orbs MS?

The point is control. The crit isn't the point, in and of itself. The crit is added sprinkles, the real flavor is the fact that Paralysis comes with it. You want bigger ZOMGBURST numbers? Use Mind Blast first. Follow it through with a spike spike death combo, a second blast if you have to. It's not meant to be a "Be all end all do everything through this one combo" like Rogues were with stunlock (not saying you're trying to stunlock, I'm saying you're trying to do too much with Mind Spike). It's giving you the option to do many things.

[doomchken]

I fear that mindpspike may see the fate of frostfirebolt, good idea but unable to find a good niche.