[Idea] New Archangel

[Kaibel]

Just a quick one to spin off my idea to improve Disc Healing a little.

My idea is to add a new Evangelism stance which procs from penance

Focused Evangelism (Penance):
Increases the healing power (or absorbing power) of your spells by X % and reduces the duration of your weakened soul debuff by 1 second. Stacks up 3 times.

Focused Archangel (Penance):
Consumes your Evangelism buff instantly restoring 1/2/3% of your total mana and increasing healing (or absorbing power) by X %.

I've done very little research into this idea but off the top of my head it has the potential to work well as:

1: Just like the shadow spec requirement for Dark Evangelism, you Must Spec Disc in order to use this proc (so it will not effect holy/shadow in any way).
2: There seems to be a lot of chatter on forums and basically everywhere about the lack of throughput for Disc Priest healing come lvl85.
3: If the fight gets hairy and you have to focus on more healing then just spaming smite you don't loose one of your main mechanics.
4: I chose Penance cause if you don't use it........ YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!
5: There is no mana reduction for the Evangelism side so people are inclined to use Archangel when they need mana, avoiding the problem of rendering Archangel useless.
6: These procs would just be numbers so if it did become "OP" in any way, the problem could easily be fixed.
7: The smite spam is very unpredictable at the best on times (eg: A mob dies before a smite goes off. Smite misses..... and so on)
8: Has the potential to make our 31 point talent actually useful (dare I say it?... cough.... Tree of Life...... cough...... OP...... cough much?)

I'm already sick of spaming smite and don't feel a healer should have to dps in order to get the most out of there healing spells (The 15% healing boost for smite Archangel). From what I can remember, Blizzard said that healers would have the option to do damage when their healing is quiet, and that it wouldn't not effect healing in any way if they chose not to yet it seems that this philosophy just went right out the window with Disc.

Well! That's enough complaining from me.

Let me know waht you think of this idea.

[harky]

Too powerful, sorry. Evangelism/Archangel are intended for people who do want to spam Smite, or for Shadow at 85. By allowing it to be used with Penance it would become a required talent and most likely the strongest 3 talent points in the entire tree. Not really the intent of it at all.

[Kaibel]

Too powerful, sorry. Evangelism/Archangel are intended for people who do want to spam Smite, or for Shadow at 85. By allowing it to be used with Penance it would become a required talent and most likely the strongest 3 talent points in the entire tree. Not really the intent of it at all.

Cheers for your feedback.
I don't intend to stomp on smiters ground, this just an idea on how to improve disc healing in the simplest form. It is an awesome mechanic yes, but as I said before, It's more or less a requirement for a disc priest to dps to get the most out of their heals, this is just one idea to compensate for that. Very easily fix if it does get "OP", just change the % it effects.

[Abandon]

It could be interesting if they simply let Penance build stacks of Atonement when used for damage.

[Diber]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if it did one extra thing- Improved Absorbs as well as healing....

[Kaibel]

It could be interesting if they simply let Penance build stacks of Atonement when used for damage.

Me likey!


Dare is say holy fire as well? (make use of the holy fire glyph)......

[harky]

Cheers for your feedback.
I don't intend to stomp on smiters ground, this just an idea on how to improve disc healing in the simplest form. It is an awesome mechanic yes, but as I said before, It's more or less a requirement for a disc priest to dps to get the most out of their heals, this is just one idea to compensate for that. Very easily fix if it does get "OP", just change the % it effects.

This isn't the case at all in regard to it being a requirement to get the most out of their heals. Full healing specs without Atonement/Archangel are capable of higher throughput and still do not have mana issues. Top healing method for Disc right now is Mass Shield + Penance + Holy Nova when you can hit 5 targets.

[Kaibel]

This isn't the case at all in regard to it being a requirement to get the most out of their heals. Full healing specs without Atonement/Archangel are capable of higher throughput and still do not have mana issues. Top healing method for Disc right now is Mass Shield + Penance + Holy Nova when you can hit 5 targets.

can you please link a talent tree spec to go with this, I've just had a look and if you don't get evang/arch there really isn't much in the tree left.

Also are you trolling?

[Madam]

This isn't the case at all in regard to it being a requirement to get the most out of their heals. Full healing specs without Atonement/Archangel are capable of higher throughput and still do not have mana issues. Top healing method for Disc right now is Mass Shield + Penance + Holy Nova when you can hit 5 targets.

Harky~ Are you sure about that? The log that Surea posted yesterday shows the opposite.

I guess I am now more confused now than before 4.0.1 was released, please take another look...

[Drahzere]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if it did one extra thing- Improved Absorbs as well as healing....

If I'm not mistaken, don't disc priests absorbs scale with spellpower? I could be wrong since my priest is one of my less played alts, but I'm pretty sure that is correct. If so the 15% healing would effect absorbs as well, maybe not quite by 15% though.

OT: I like smiting for healing / dpsing, but as said it's not a mandatory talent and I have been hearing effective specs without it (although how could you pass up archangel wings!? :P). However I think adding penance to this would be quite a nice ability to put into it. But at the same time if this was implemented it would basically be just another ability you pressed every 30 seconds without having to do anything in particular besides what you normally do in order to get the effect.

I think the 15% healing buff and 15% mana return are quite powerful, and to be able to do that just using it every 30 seconds without having to do anything special (besides healing with your main healing spell) takes away the fun and interesting part and just makes it another CD to use every 30 seconds with a slightly OP effect. Granted this could be tuned down to say 5 or 10% healing / mana, and to get the full 15% you would have to smite.

In short, I think the ability is something you have to risk not putting out full healing potential, in order to gain the bonuses, and adding penance into this would just take out that mechanic.

Edit: Personally I realized I used personally way too much, so I personally decided to take personally out of the post.

[Lionor]

I've thought about something similar myself to be honest but there are a couple of issues. Most have been covered by the posters above me so I would just like you to consider the following:

If it did indeed stack with Penance wouldn't that make Archangel into Chakra 2.0? I mean it does feel extremely similar, thus while an interesting idea I don't feel like it would be the way to go.

[harky]

Harky~ Are you sure about that? The log that Surea posted yesterday shows the opposite.

I guess I am now more confused now than before 4.0.1 was released, please take another look...

Is this the log you're refrencing? http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=3566&e=3730

If so all this really shows is that 5 healing Saurfang is silly. Both Paladins at ~80% over-healing. Using two Disc Priests. One at 65% over-healing and one at 50% over-healing. Shaman at 67.5% over-healing. Atonement over-healing at just under 60%... this is not the log you want to use to show Atonement as being good. It's a log that shows under-tuned content that was not designed for the current system being facerolled.

BQL from the same log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=7376&e=7682

Top heal? Renew. See the problem?

Here's what a top log on Saurfang should look like: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...&e=2027#Kyrill

This is how Disc should be playing post-4.0.

As far as the spec? You're required to take some points as filler. 1 in Evangelism and 2 in Atonement, typically. The only question then is how to split your talents. The spec I've been messing around with takes 2 in Imp. Renew and 3 in Darkness.

[Madam]

Thank you for the link...must look at the priests spec, he/she had 37 Atonement heals....yup, just looked up the priest and is fully spec'd in E/A/A and shadow, but when I peeked at wow-heroes before reseting it showed disc/ disc.

[harky]

The Priest's spec isn't really of consequence, the playstyle is. There are 4 filler points in Disc. 3 if you're taking Inner Focus. The point is Atonement healing isn't, as implied, required.

Anyway, back on topic: The problem with the idea of Penance triggering Evangelism is that the tree would need to be reworked. Even if it was only per cast and not per hit, so it took 3 full Penance casts to top it off it would make Archangel nothing except free mana and Evangelism nothing but free healing. You would go from it being some fun filler points to getting a very large increase in healing for 3 points. Evangelism (Penance) would need to be something like +1% healing per stack (3 max) and Archangel would either need to not return mana, or have a pitifully small buff. I could see it working, but not without changing the entire playstyle of Disc.

[Abandon]

That's why it could be an idea to tie it to the Damage-portion of Penance, and not the healing. They could even tie Penance into Atonement with the damage portion as well. Considering it is our tree-defining spell, it would be nice if it were incorperated.

[Surea]

Is this the log you're refrencing? http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=3566&e=3730

If so all this really shows is that 5 healing Saurfang is silly. Both Paladins at ~80% over-healing. Using two Disc Priests. One at 65% over-healing and one at 50% over-healing. Shaman at 67.5% over-healing. Atonement over-healing at just under 60%... this is not the log you want to use to show Atonement as being good. It's a log that shows under-tuned content that was not designed for the current system being facerolled.

BQL from the same log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=7376&e=7682

Top heal? Renew. See the problem?

Here's what a top log on Saurfang should look like: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...&e=2027#Kyrill

This is how Disc should be playing post-4.0.

As far as the spec? You're required to take some points as filler. 1 in Evangelism and 2 in Atonement, typically. The only question then is how to split your talents. The spec I've been messing around with takes 2 in Imp. Renew and 3 in Darkness.

Do you really have to attack me all the time? I didn't post this to prove attonement at all. I was just trying to be helpful. You also know that I used renew this much because I couldn't spam shields, the other disc was doing that. Stop being so annoyingly mean. You can disagree with me, but you can at least stay polite. Yet you take one part of the log and completely attack it; while you should know that having 2 disc priests in the raid isn't optimal at all. Maybe I should stop being helpful at all, if that's the response I'm getting .

[Madam]

This isn't the case at all in regard to it being a requirement to get the most out of their heals. Full healing specs without Atonement/Archangel are capable of higher throughput and still do not have mana issues. Top healing method for Disc right now is Mass Shield + Penance + Holy Nova when you can hit 5 targets.

I am still stuck on this statement...the link you posted to confirm "top healing method" the priests top four spells used PW:S,PoH(procing DA), PoM and FH. Penance was a close fifth and Holy Nova only healed 17K. The priest also had 262 Renew heals. (full raid report)

For many months here on MMO there have been many lolbubblespam threads, but since this priest managed a 25 man raid with 1-5 other healers, depending on fight, bubblespam is valid again? Or was it valid all along and we just took too many healers in general?

You should have linked both Saurfang logs as they both did well on that fight, sure the Atonement healer overhealed more, but could Saurfang be two healed by a Disc with Smite healing spec and a Pally? My guess would be yes.

I have to say, I have learned a ton from you Harky, and I thank you for that, you have my respect, it is just frustrating when sometimes you may twist things to prove a point.

As for Holy Nova, can you elaborate as to why you find it one of the top spells? And should HN be glyphed?

On topic: It sure would be nice to incorporate some sort of buff when Penance is used for damage, just don't see Blizz messing with the spell.

[harky]

Madam, the complaints about 'bubble spam' type healing methods is threefold.

1. It's boring.
2. It's lower throughput than Holy spamming renew and Druids spamming rejuv.
3. It requires other healers to compensate when WS persists, but PW:S is consumed.

That doesn't mean Discipline can do better. They really can't.

Also keep in mind about Holy Nova what I actually said was 'when you can hit 5 targets'. In most fights... you can't. Those you can it's a better GCD to spend than your other filler. So it works well. I wouldn't glyph it though unless it's just for a specific fight where you'll be clustered up.

When looking at a log like that you need to keep in mind how many healers are being used and what the delegation of roles is. When two healing something you're going to have to do tank healing. Weakened Soul + Penance CD leaves a large gap for other filler. Flash Heal, Renew, etc cover those gaps. The problem with it being 'valid' was rather that because the maximum throughput is lower than other healers there are cases where it can no longer work. Not mechanically, but due to just not being able to heal for enough.

Finally, Surea, it wasn't me who brought up the log. I'm sorry if you took offense, but that wasn't my intent. You killed the boss and I assume you had fun. You did fine. So did your raid.

[Diber]

Off topic: @ Harky, I'm agreeing with ya mate, but I always looked at Disc more as "so, the other healers are casting, and the person is going to die in 1 sec- the healer's cast is 2... Shield." Shields prolong life, and stop damage, they are a "quick fix" to healing, and aren't meant to be an entire play-style as far as I see anyway. They're just a sit-in to slow incoming damage.

On Topic: While I'd love my previous statement to come true, I'm quite happy with it after extensively trying it last night in a 25 man, though on fights like Marrowgar or BQL 25 heroic, I didn't have time to use Smite at all :P But on fights like lol-ship, and Prof Putricide, it was a blast to keep switching between smites and heals!

On Topic: About the only really neat thing I'd like from Archangel would be for the 15% healing to apply to the heal portion of Atonement. It'd be nice for an extra 500-1k healing off those smites to help bring them along.