NFL updates/news

[buck008]

And Green Bay unless I am missing that there.

Wow I suck. Yup Rodgers too. OK, so my initial 12-15 was right. I think my larger point stands though, since there are 32 teams in the league. Including Rodgers and Roethlisberger there are five teams with no questions at all at QB. The next seven guys still are what they are. Manning, Dalton, and Newton are still huge question marks.

Just for the hell of it the others are Vick, RG3, Christian Ponder, Josh Freeman, Alex Smith, Kevin Kolb, Matt Flynn (or whomever starts in Seattle), Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez (or Tebow), whomever Miami starts... Matt Moore I guess, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Colt McCoy (maybe), Hasselbeck (probably), Blaine Gabbert, Andrew Luck, Carson Palmer (or Lienart), and finally Matt Cassel. If you discount the rookies because we have absolutely no idea how they'll turn out until they actually play pro football, there isn't a franchise quarterback in that whole lot. Pickings are so slim, Frisco and Buffalo fans talked themselves into Smith and Fitzpatrick actually being real quarterbacks. Tarvaris Jackson could start for nearly any of the 17 teams with those quarterbacks, mostly because they didn't have much to begin with and at least Jackson has started before. Same reason coaches get reused to often even after they wash out.

Oh and Luck and RG3 are only starting because last year their respective teams started Curtis Painter and Rex Grossman (and Beck).

[Robbyjawz]

Smith got signed and is like the 19th overall in QB money right now, I feel that the fact that his contract is fairly incentive based is fine. If he is still on the team for Spring stuff next year, then it is fairly guaranteed money, but right now, Harbaugh is having Kaepernick learn the system, which I feel is a good thing.

Otherwise, I feel that you are correct in QB rankings, however, I say that Dalton can get himself into the second tier category with another decent performance. Newton is also bordering that boundary.
I don't understand how Baltimore is able to stand having Cam Cameron still, as well as Flaaco, with offensive firepower like that, anything short of being a top 10 QB is nonsense. Flaaco is "Average Joe" for a reason.
The Jets are going to be a train wreck yet again, they have no cohesion on offense or defense for the most part and no real locker room leaders. They need to be purged by ownership, but they seem uninterested so long as if the team gets in headlines.

[Bamboozled]

lol yea Rodgers should headline every QB list

T1: Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Peyton (healthy only)
T2: Big Ben, Rivers, Eli, Romo, Cutler, Vick, Stafford, Newton, Ryan, Schaub

you realize your list is a joke, right? Brees, Peyton and Rodgers all above Roethlisberger and Eli who have multiple Super Bowl rings? to have Peyon in tier 1 with a 9-10 playoff record and an upcoming season in which there is a strong possibility it could be his worst season since his rookie campaign over Ben and Eli again, make your list moot. but, so often people leave Roethlisberger out of the "elite" class.

people make me laugh.

[Skarsguard]

you realize your list is a joke, right? Brees, Peyton and Rodgers all above Roethlisberger and Eli who have multiple Super Bowl rings? to have Peyon in tier 1 with a 9-10 playoff record and an upcoming season in which there is a strong possibility it could be his worst season since his rookie campaign over Ben and Eli again, make your list moot. but, so often people leave Roethlisberger out of the "elite" class.

people make me laugh.

Dan Marino didn't win a Superbowl Terry Bradshaw won 4 doesn't mean Bradshaw is better then Marino.Superbowl wins are kinda overrated when talking about individual players mainly because no player plays offense,defense,kicks field goals,and punt's in the same game. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won superbowl's and there pretty avg quaterback's and that's me being nice.
The only thing I don't get about Jibjabb's list is he had Mike Vick in the same tier as Rivers,Romo,Stafford,and Ben. Oh and Tavaris Jackson would be in tier 6 or something.

[draynay]

to be fair, the guys in his T1 have better numbers,

Manning and Rodgers have both had QB ratings over 120 and all four of them have thrown for 45+ TDs in a season

Eli and Ben have good numbers, and multiple super bowl wins, but everybody in his T1 also has a ring

you make legitimate points too Bamboozled, I could see them being included in that top elite group or barely sitting outside of it depending how one wanted to look at it, but they are certainly proven winners and I definitely see those two above anybody else listed under the second tier

[Gracin]

Yea you can't really judge a QB based solely how many rings they have. I wish I could find the article showing that the average QB postseason yardage over the last ten years is like 200 yards a game which is by no means an impressive demonstration of QB skill. Don't get me wrong Ben and Eli are damn fine quarterbacks, but at this point I wouldn't consider them T1. I think Big Ass Ben would be a lot better of a QB if he'd layoff the fried chicken and buffet lines and there are times every season where he just cannot get it down. As far as Eli is concerned I think he is a fine QB and I expect three more trips to the Superbowl and at least one more ring for him and the Giants, but he like Ben has moments where he isn't on. My definition of a T1 or elite is about being on that field and being on every game.

Overall I'd say Jib's list is fairly accurate, although I'm not sure I'd include Rivers' as a T2 anymore... Could be that I'm a biased KC fan that who can't stand Rivers' crybaby ass.

[Logonov]

you realize your list is a joke, right? Brees, Peyton and Rodgers all above Roethlisberger and Eli who have multiple Super Bowl rings? to have Peyon in tier 1 with a 9-10 playoff record and an upcoming season in which there is a strong possibility it could be his worst season since his rookie campaign over Ben and Eli again, make your list moot. but, so often people leave Roethlisberger out of the "elite" class.

people make me laugh.

Ben tends to be a Mr. Clutch of sorts but when theres just nothing on the line his stats are fairly bland. You almost have to disregard Ben's ring in super bowl XL as the guy had the worst QB rating in NFL history during a super bowl. Granted he more than made up for it in the next one with an outstanding final drive.

Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Manning(when healthy) are kinda in a tier above the rest for being almost robots on the field. Ben and Eli have exceptional talent, but they have really bad games sometimes whereas the other 4 tend to have ok games. Consistency for those two would push them into the top tier, otherwise theyll just be on the outside looking in. Granted, for Eli and Ben, having 2 super bowls still is pretty nice as only 1 elite of them all has as many or more.

[Badpaladin]

<stuff>

(eli)Manning and Roethlisberger rode on the coattails of their phenominal defenses that dominated teams in the playoffs. And if we're going to measure teams by the metric of "important" wins, then why the fuck are Newton, Cutler, Romo, Stafford, Ryan and Schaub up there? There's need for another tier if that's the case, because they've accomplished far too little to be associated with Rivers, Big Ben and Eli.

[conscript]

The Skins and Cowboys lost their appeal on their salary cap penalties.

Winslow got dealt to the Hawks for peanuts, grats Seattle on a massive TE upgrade, they had all of 400 combined yards receiving out of their tight ends last year. The Bucs then promptly signed Dallas Clark. I love Dallas Clark. I don't think he is as good as a healthy Winslow though and was a Manning product.

Players have to wear knee and thigh pads again starting in 2013, assuming the NFLPA allows it to go through.

[draynay]

I don't know if we've ever seen a healthy Winslow

[Jibjabb]

(eli)Manning and Roethlisberger rode on the coattails of their phenominal defenses that dominated teams in the playoffs. And if we're going to measure teams by the metric of "important" wins, then why the fuck are Newton, Cutler, Romo, Stafford, Ryan and Schaub up there? There's need for another tier if that's the case, because they've accomplished far too little to be associated with Rivers, Big Ben and Eli.

and Rivers has accomplished what exactly? you also just admitted how Eli and Ben werent even that good they just were good enough to not lose in the super bowl. Not everybody has the luxury of playing with a good team around them. Stafford just threw for 5k with over 40 TDs, Romo has statistically been miles ahead of Ben and Eli for years, Cutler was playing well leading the Bears to the 2nd best record in the NFC with arguably the worst O-line AND the worst receivers before going down. And Cam set all kinds of rookie records and had a rediculous 14 rushing TD. Ryan/Schuab are just consistently good.

[buck008]

By the way:
Eli Manning 24132 yards, 164 TD, 115 INT, 58.2% passing for his career.
Tony Romo 20834 yards, 149 TD, 72 INT, 64.5% passing for his career.
One of those guys is arguably the best closer in the NFL today, is 8-3 in the post season, is a two time Super Bowl winner (and if you think he had nothing to do with those wins, you didn't watch the games), and is the SB MVP in both games. Oh and he holds the record for playoff road wins by a QB (5), fourth quarter TD passes in a single season (15), game winning drives in a season (tied at 8), most road wins in a single season and post season (10), and most passing yards in a single post season (1219).

The other guy lost the only two playoff games he's even played in and is something like 8-10 in the month of December.

That being said, my point initially was that only a few teams have no issues at quarterback at all. I'm absent minded and forgot two. How you decide to rank those guys according to ability is up to you. My ranking wasn't so much based on talent as job security.

For the record:
1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Manning, Eli
5. ?
There's a whole group of guys that could possibly be fifth. It's Peyton Manning if he's healthy, but he's on his last legs these days anyway. Roethlisberger is a consideration, so are Stafford and Rivers.

I will also say this. Eli Manning is in the Hall of Fame if he retires tomorrow. If he wins one more Super Bowl, he's a first ballot HoF inductee. No doubt in my mind. As it stands, it depends on who else retires when he does, and how many deserving QB's still need to get in. He'd have to wait in line. There are only 10 other guys that started and won multiple Super Bowls. Two are still playing. Jim Plunkett is the only one not in the Hall.

[Jibjabb]

Eli isnt a hall of famer he hasnt had any great seasons at all. Winning super bowl doesnt give automatic hall of fame status nor does it mean you are better than someone else. Your stats arent looking at averages just totals, Eli has played in a lot more games than Romo has so of course his totals will be higher

Eli has played in 120 games, Romo has played in 82 games (depending on the site have to go to the game log to see the proper games played since some count GP because the player was active even though they never threw a pass)
Romo averages 254.07 Yds a game... Eli averages 229.83
Romo averages 1.82 TD a game... Eli averages 1.54
Romo averages 0.88 INT a game... Eli averages 1.08
Romo has a 96.9 QB Rating... Eli has 82.1
Romo has a 64.5 Completion %... Eli is 58.4

Romo has a been a better quarterback overall than Eli has, stats is right there to prove it. Eli has had 2 good playoff runs, otherwise there isnt much else there to back up any greatness talk.

[Twiddly]

You simply cannot be serious if you say Eli is not a hall of famer. Saying Romo is better then him almost makes me gag, romo is a complete choker, eli gets it done when it counts.

Romo is awful, the cowboys will NEVER win anything with him as the starting QB. Stats are a complete lie in football, eli does what he has to do to win. If you would take Romo on your team over Eli then I hope you enjoy watching eli suceed while your team sucks :P

Eli manning is also one of the toughest qb's in the league, people make fun of him for how he looks or acts, but he took so many hits in the SF playoff game this year he was amazing his own teamates how he just got right back up and went to work. Romo takes half that many hits? Out. Romo is trash, and should not even be a starting qb in this league, he is a proven, born loser.





How much time did he miss? Romo would have begged to have been put on the IR, he is just fragile and no good when it really matters. Rivers is bad to, his teams will never win with him starting, NY robbed SD with that whole thing.

[buck008]

The dude is a winner. He gets better when it matters. If I need a touchdown to win a game with 2 minutes left and I can take any quarterback in the league, I won't accept an answer that isn't Tom Brady or Eli Manning. If Eli does win a third ring, by the way, that puts him in a class with Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, and Brady. End of list.

For fun(and I used outdated numbers before, new numbers from NFL.com):
Eli Manning- 27579 yards, 185 TD, 129 INT, 58.4%
Troy Aikman- 32942 yards, 165 TD, 141 INT, 61.5%
Steve Young- 33124 yards, 232 TD, 107 INT, 64.3%
Jim Kelly- 35467 yards, 237 TD, 175 INT, 60.1%

Eli has a couple more years to pad his stats before his career is as long as those guys. These are three of the more recent inductees at QB. I left out guys like Marino and Elway because Manning clearly isn't in that class. His numbers are in the ballpark, and he's got the Super Bowl wins to put him over the top.

[Deleted]

Both Eli and Roethlisberger are carried by their defences. The Giants went 9-7 last year and managed to luck out at the very end, did we all suddenly forget? You wanna know why they were so succesfull in the playoffs? Because their defence was healty! If Eli continues to win super bowls sure he will be in the Hall of Fame, but it won't be for the same reasons Brady and his brother is going there and as such I don't think we should rank him among them.

[draynay]

How much time did he miss? Romo would have begged to have been put on the IR, he is just fragile and no good when it really matters. Rivers is bad to, his teams will never win with him starting, NY robbed SD with that whole thing.

Are we already forgetting that he played through a fractured rib and punctured lung last season?

[conscript]

How much time did he miss? Romo would have begged to have been put on the IR, he is just fragile and no good when it really matters. Rivers is bad to, his teams will never win with him starting, NY robbed SD with that whole thing.

Ya lets ignore the fact that Manning has played his entire career with a much, much better supporting cast on and off the field. Manning is a Hall of Famer in my opinion, but Romo and Rivers aren't exactly slouches. Rivers has had just about no one on his team except for Gates and his coach is Norv Freaking Turner. Tony Romo has had about no one on his team except for Ware, Miles Austin (who Romo has made better) and Jason Witten. Plus Romo's coach is Jerry freaking Jones, more or less. Romo and Rivers are the QBs of two of the NFLs five most dysfunctional organizations (Browns, Raiders, Cowboys, Chargers, Dolphins). They both have dealt with massive instability their entire careers (Jerry Jones' constant interference and the Chargers refusal to sign big names plus they refuse to fire Norv Turner). Romo is constantly scapegoated because of his "collapses" which are borderline not true at all. You can blame the Detroit implosion on him last year, but last I checked he didn't play defense and that was the primary reason they didn't win that division easily. He still gets blamed for fumbling the hold when he had no business being out there doing that anyways as the starting QB.

---------- Post added 2012-05-23 at 01:10 PM ----------

Are we already forgetting that he played through a fractured rib and punctured lung last season?

Also this.

I've said it before, but if you take away Tom Brady's two absolutely unreal seasons(and his rings lol), he and Romo are almost identical in their career per season numbers. Romo isn't that far off from the top tier guys at all. He just plays for an organization that is always in flux because the owner is an interfering douche who thinks he has the knowledge to be the GM of his own team. The Cowboys have only gone downhill over the last couple years as he insists on hiring weak coaches who won't question him.

[buck008]

We can make excuses for Romo all we like. He's been the starter for several years, and the Cowboys have nothing to show for it. They've been picked to win the division damn near every year. Let's not pretend they have no talent, there was something there that made every football analyst pick them to win the toughest division in football. He doesn't bring his A game when it matters. I don't see how you can watch the games and not see that.

If you think Eli was carried by his defense, you similarly don't watch the games. The defense finally played well in the playoffs last year, but literally the only reason the Giants were as good as 9-7 is because Eli put the team on his back and carried them there. They were in the bottom of the league in nearly every important rushing and defensive stat category. Yet they won the division. They also had the toughest schedule in the league. Let's also not pretend he has this ultra talented receiving corps. They're good, but they drop A LOT of friggin balls. He has no real TE. His saving grace is that his backs can catch well out of the backfield, which is the bread and butter of that offense. He's been a top 3 or 4 guy by the numbers pretty much every year, and he wins. Tell me again why he's not in a class with Brady and his brother? Oh yea, he beat Brady on the biggest stage in his sport. Twice.

[conscript]

The NFLPA filed collusion charges today against the NFL about the cap penalties on the Skins and Cowboys and the NFL owners imposing a secretly agreed to cap in a cap free season, which the owners agreed to in order to opt out of the last CBA. Seems odd though. The NFLPA already sort of agreed with the NFL on this. Sure they did it with a gun to their head, the owners were either going to slash the cap on every single team or the NFLPA had to agree to let them penalize only these two teams, but they seemed to sign off on Roger Goddell, man of infinite power by agreeing to that ultimatum in the first place.

---------- Post added 2012-05-23 at 01:55 PM ----------

Tell me again why he's not in a class with Brady and his brother? Oh yea, he beat Brady on the biggest stage in his sport. Twice.

I think he and Rothy absolutely are on that level just because they are absolutely clutch winners. The defense didn't lead the game winning drives in both Eli's Super Bowls and in Rothy's Bowls.

Tier 1 Best Pure Qbs: Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers
Tier 1 Best clutch Qbs: Rothy, Eli
Tier 2: Romo, Rivers
Tier 2 if healthy: Stafford, Schaub, Vick, Cutler
Tier 3: Ryan, Newton(do it one more year then we will see), Alex Smith
Tier 4: Who cares beyond here
Tier 712: Joe Flacco, destroyer of Ravens' Super Bowls