Crusader Strike vs HotR Prot

[Ilario]

For prot I shouldn't be using CS at all right?

[underdogba]

You should be using CS on single targets and HotR on multiple targets.

[Jimusmc]

my hammer of the righteous glyphed does more damage.

crusader feeds off the 2-hand weapon damage.

[underdogba]

my hammer of the righteous glyphed does more damage.

crusader feeds off the 2-hand weapon damage.

Even if that were the case, I wouldn't get used to it, because through talents Blizz has been explicitly working toward making CS preferred on single targets.

[Rehea]

the times im messing around with my prot paladin tank alt i dont even have crusader strike on my bars because my only tanking weapon is 277 last word and it doesnt work really well with crusader strike due to it fast speed, also the tier 10 bonus increases damage done by hammer so my hammer does more damage single target then crusader strike does by about 100~ damage

if you are about tier 10 gear without a good slow weapon like bloodvenom blade or similar just go with hammer, if you can get an adequate slow weapon go for crusader strike on sigle target

[Ferel]

With glyph AND 2pc t10, HotR hits hard now, but don't expect to have the tier bonus to keep it this way at 85. And Jimusmc, Wrath of the Lightbringer would like a word with you.

[underdogba]

With glyph AND 2pc t10, HotR hits hard now, but don't expect to have the tier bonus to keep it this way at 85. And Jimusmc, Wrath of the Lightbringer would like a word with you.

Now that you mention it, I honestly can't see how HotR could be beating CS on single targets on live right now, unless the poster's spec is just wrong.

[Ferel]

It probably isn't helping that some folks are gaming HotR's Holy damage coefficient by using spellpower weapons. I'm not rushing to get one though, Blizz will likely intervene to keep us from returning to the BC Prot mindset, if they don't have something in the works already.

[Deleted]

iirc, HotR only crits for 50% extra damage, whereas CS hits for 100% extra. Could be a factor.

On my level 70 alt, HotR hits for about 8/900 combined, and CS hits for around 6/700. I'm also using the 2.8 speed heirloom sword, so its entirely possible that it hits harder.

[Maenetus]

CS scales with vengeance

[Gallahadd]

tbh at the moment I've swapped out my tanking weapon for the Wrathful 2.6 mace and now my CS hit's like a frakkin truck :P

I think at the moment they hit about equal with no vengeance, but as my vengeace stacks up CS starts to pull ahead. At 85 with 2pc T10 gone and high Dps tank weapons I can see it going to how Blizz want, CS on Single/small groups, and HoTR for large groups.

at the moment tbh if all you do is heroics, you can pretty much stick with HoTR at all times, but once you hit raids for bosses CS is king, I've seen crits for upwards of 10/11k with CS on fights like LK, HoTR can't even come close :P

[underdogba]

I think at the moment they hit about equal with no vengeance, but as my vengeace stacks up CS starts to pull ahead. At 85 with 2pc T10 gone and high Dps tank weapons I can see it going to how Blizz want, CS on Single/small groups, and HoTR for large groups.

That explains it really. I never actually analyzed the numbers in any depth, but I just anecdotally felt from experience that CS was better on single targets, and the basic explanation for not noticing that is that somebody who doesn't raid will not really notice the effect of Vengeance, which is probably then the case with the previous poster.

[Ronark]

CS scales with vengeance

Both do.


Both CS and HoR deal weapon damage, meaning in general that slower weapons will cause CS to deal more damage (form the weapon damage portion) than HoR (from the weapon damage + Holy damage).

In current gear, with a slow weapon CS will hit harder. However, if you have a fast weapon, or have the 2pc Prot bonus from Tier gear, HoR has the potential to hit harder.


The difference, however, is rather small, varying from 100-800 usually.

[Maenetus]

yes both scale with vengeance, but HotR (glyphed) is 33% normalized weapon damage, and CS (talented) is 184% normalized weapon damage.

as far as I know the the holy part of HotR doesn't scale with AP, so with a decent stack of vengeance CS pulls ahead.

which is a narrow use case (single target in a raid) but still a clear use

[ruzhy6]

yes both scale with vengeance, but HotR (glyphed) is 33% normalized weapon damage, and CS (talented) is 184% normalized weapon damage.

as far as I know the the holy part of HotR doesn't scale with AP, so with a decent stack of vengeance CS pulls ahead.

which is a narrow use case (single target in a raid) but still a clear use

Exactly this. Although calling the use of the word narrow is not very appropriate. Considering worthwhile content will always be raid bosses.

[towelliee]

Damage
Ability Raw Net Glyph
CS 4709 4339 4534
HotR 615 567 624
HaNova 4133 3651 3651

This is at level 80 latest damage METLAB analysis by Theck at Maintankadin forums

So given that glyphed HotR+HaNova < unglyphed CS, CS should be our go-to for single targets. If they fix the HotR glyph or T10 2-piece such that they affect the Nova portion, then the story will change again.

Raw is the damage one would expect on a regular hit without target damage reduction. Net incorporates damage redux, hit/miss, and crit factors. Glyph is the same as net, but with that ability's glyph active.