People say PvP isnt balanced around 1v1 yada yada, but heres why you should care

[Deathquoi]

1v1 balance issues carry over to group PvP as well. I've always felt that it's a huge mistake to not balance for 1v1.

If you balance for 1v1, healers become unable to heal themselves through damage and have no hope of keeping anyone alive in a group setting.

[Doylez]

If you balance for 1v1, healers become unable to heal themselves through damage and have no hope of keeping anyone alive in a group setting.

Make healers the only exception then.

[Deathquoi]

Make healers the only exception then.

So then it's still not balanced, GJ.

[saberon]

Make healers the only exception then.

but then it's not balanced.

@OP: You are correct. Just because it's not balanced, does not mean it's not useful.

1v1'ing is one of the better ways to gain an understanding of an opposing class, as well as an understanding of your own class.

By beating an opponent who has a better chance of winning, you are improving yourself.

[Doylez]

So then it's still not balanced, GJ.

*sigh* You don't want to understand me, do you? Ofc you don't blindly balance ONLY for 1v1, but much of the imbalance in 1v1 carries over to group PvP as well and that is what should get fixed.

[Against the Modern World]

If you balance for 1v1, healers become unable to heal themselves through damage and have no hope of keeping anyone alive in a group setting.

I think they should keep someone alive for some time but not forever, so in Healer vs DPS situation healer could sustain himself only for 1.5 minutes(for example), after this he'll be OOM, but until he has mana, he's alive.
Or make built-in reduction when you cast heals on yourself, because right now healers could tank a few DPSers.

[fizikz]

Make healers the only exception then.

because balancing around 1v1 wouldn't completely break group pvp or pve at all. yeah. it's just blizzard being stubborn and liking things that way.

[Devanox]

With every successful (read,duelist and above) arena team in the history of WoW, players need a high level of personal skill individually in order to push teams to gladiator capable ranges. You can play an OP comp, get rival, but if the individual skill isn't up there your not going any higher than that (evident via all the 2200 wiz cleaves in s8).

That being said, 1v1's are great practice towards becoming a better player (and understanding class mechanics also). Many of the reasons why PvP should never be balanced around 1v1 have been stated already so i am not going to reiterate. However, when you proceed to start handling multiple classes at once (1v2, 1v3, 1v4's even) then you really start to show why personal skill and 1v1 practice is essential.

Either that or your just OP

[cosmonia]

who cares


blizzard doesnt care about the pvp anyway.and they certainly dont care about wrath of the lich king pvp so why complain about it,if you dont like it theres plenty of other games were the people who made it actually care about the pvp

I cant help but think that they gave up on pvp in lich king. Arena has been a dissapointment given class combo imbalances and they have been either unwilling or unable to remedy the issue. I sadly stopped pvping when I was killed in seconds as a warlock in season 5. With healers becoming virtual gods in game many people like myself just stopped bothering.

I can only hope that the new rated battleground system becomes as fun and rewarding as it is promising. However, only time will tell.

[drakean]

All people are saying is that 1v1 wouldn't work in a structured arena system with rewards and such.

1vs1 arena would be kinda cool, i mean they would prob wouldnt be able to put in real awards or anything but maybe cool things like pets or iron boot flask type stuff.

Pretty much be queing up for a duel.

[sacrypheyes]

If you balance for 1v1, healers become unable to heal themselves through damage and have no hope of keeping anyone alive in a group setting.

don't forget that in a 1v1, healers have to deal with interrupts/cc/stuns etc which logically limits their self-healing potential while they may get more room to heal in a group provided his mates would properly cover his ass.

i see no reason for any class to not have the same chances as another to win a 1v1 provided players skill is roughly equivalent. ideal proportions in 1v1 should be :
33% win
33% tie (perfect balance between the two players)
33% loss

[JShepherd87]

I'm a devoted fan of world pvp (not dead btw and not irrelevant to the game's balance) spending sometimes 6 consecutive hours pvping Wintergrasp whether it's in session or not. Depending on the day, sometimes my honor/hour is higher than bgs. My most exciting, compelling battles by far have been outside of bgs and arena.

Not to go off topic, but some reason's for this are:
Greater penalty for losing... corpse run sometimes w/ 2 min wait + the time it takes to safely rez -- instead of < 30 sec spirit healer rez
More variables to adapt to... anything from terrain features to quest mechanics to mobs to other players getting involved at any time.
When it gets personal... the same rogue's killed you 3 time's in a row, but you think if you get the jump on him you could win and redeem yourself.
The kill is the objective... not some inanimate flag or... /groan... a vehicle.

I always thought of world pvp as the pinnacle of pvp, and bgs/arenas as some amusing feature just tacked on for amusement of it. I know I'm a minority, but those are my 2 cents.

Oh ya, point being I'd like to see balance around 1v1 cause I just don't care as much about the rest.

[sacrypheyes]

** remembers of tarren mill/crossroads back then in vanilla **

[frott]

So you cant beat every class in 1v1 thats cool...I am fine with that. But really, this game begins with 1v1 and unless you know how to 1v1 and make the best out of every encounter you will be worse at group PvP.

So I practice 1v1 and try to get good at beating every class in 1v1 even if some are tougher than others I can at least do the best my class and spec can against them. The reason for this is simple: In group PvP we all work together and since I know how to fight each of the classes in 1v1 I make it easier on my dispeller and my healers and if they have done the same we have a better chance of winning as a team.

Its like Adrian peterson would get no where without his blockers, but you see him break a few tackles on his own to make it to the end zone every now and then...it all adds up to being a better competitor. So I think its ok to be concerned about how our class abilities stack up against other classes abilities in 1v1 since thats where it all starts anyway.

If you know your opponents individually you make it easier on your team.

and the reason why you shouldn't care is that "knowing your opponents individually" is irrelevant to knowing an opponent in their group setting.

1v1 you might be able to easily beat class X easier than class Y

but sometimes if class X + Y are together in a 2v2, you should go for class Y.


Likewise in group PVP its one thing to know how to beat a mage 1v1 versus being aware to wait for certain buffs or procs granted from people near them.

[SilkforCalde]

1v1 balance issues carry over to group PvP as well. I've always felt that it's a huge mistake to not balance for 1v1.

No... actually there's no correlation. 1v1 Arms warrior vs Frost mage, frost mage wins 100% of the time. 2v2 arms warrior + resto druid vs frost mage + frost mage, arms warrior + resto druid wins 100% of the time.

---------- Post added 2010-11-05 at 11:43 PM ----------

*sigh* You don't want to understand me, do you? Ofc you don't blindly balance ONLY for 1v1, but much of the imbalance in 1v1 carries over to group PvP as well and that is what should get fixed.

But it doesn't. You're dead wrong.

---------- Post added 2010-11-05 at 11:44 PM ----------

Back in 3.0, as a prot warrior I beat every single class 1v1. Every spec of every class. Even healers. But in group settings, I was a valuable member but I provided control, not huge amounts of damage. I wasn't overpowered at all, whereas in 1v1 I was absurdly overpowered.

[sacrypheyes]

No... actually there's no correlation. 1v1 Arms warrior vs Frost mage, frost mage wins 100% of the time. 2v2 arms warrior + resto druid vs frost mage + frost mage, arms warrior + resto druid wins 100% of the time.

your example could have been okay if warrior + warrior > mage + mage

sadly enough, it's even worse than warrior vs mage

[SilkforCalde]

your example could have been okay if warrior + warrior > mage + mage

sadly enough, it's even worse than warrior vs mage

No, it wouldn't have been okay. My point was that 1v1 is meaningless.

[Aqueous]

While it's defo not possible to balance 1v1 perfectly and get balanced group PvP I -do- believe that tuning 1v1 a bit better, at least to the point where there aren't ridiculous mismatches (Frost Mage vs. Melee anyone?) would actually result in a more balanced group PvP setting. The reason being that - at least to a degree - such mechanics are pyramidical, and if there are gross imbalances at 1v1 or 2v2 they can often be transferred to higher brackets unless repeatedly band-aid fixed.

The problem with such band-aid fixes (like giving Frost Mages and S Priests the MS effect) is that they're blanket attempts to rebalance imbalanced class/comp match-ups and will only cause as many problems as they fix - they basically just relocate the issues somewhere else because the main issues are at the basis. The second variabes shift a little, be it due to a new tier of gear or perhaps a change elsewhere, they then become imbalanced again requiring another band-aid fix to counter the original band-aid fix and then another band-aid fix is required after that and then....oh my God!

It's my opinion that taking things down to base factors, balancing them there and then working your way up is the best way to achieve PvP balance even in group scenarios...so to that point, at least a modicum of 1v1 balance is not meaningless at all.

[sacrypheyes]

couldn't have worded it any better than that.

1v1 happens very often and there's no way you could say "hey hold on a min, gotta fetch my mate so that it's more balanced".

losing to some random guy just because he got the "xxx" class/spec while you got "yyy" is pure bs from the start. having more tools to deal with some specific class/spec is okay as long as it doesn't mean it's gonna lose no matter what.

[PoisonTree]

If you want balanced PvP with equal classes, maybe you should be playing Halo.
It's based on a fantasy universe with classes derived from fantasy roles. Unless you want them to labotomize any uniqueness out of every class then you'll stop bitching or go play your xbox.
If they were all equal, than every spec of every class would be able to perform equally and everyone would end up heals/dps/tank at the same time. If you're not happy about how your class/spec performs overall and it's such a "bs game breaking" deal, get to making an alt or nine.