Question about Ret and Crusader Strike

[Blznsmri]

Why is 3.9 seconds considered the optimal cool down for CS? I've never really understand the math behind it all and kinda consider the faster its off cd the better, because with a surv hunter/ frost DK, and Judgments of the pure i get the cooldown for CS down to like 3.2s ish, and with Bloodlust its like 2.4s.

So yea... Why?

[Badpaladin]

Uhh, 3.0 is the "cap", not 3.9. That's because the melee GCD is 1.5 seconds(and SHOULD be for CS as well, but some people are getting buggy results on that which is sort of...troubling and inconclusive), so casting most abilitites should be pretty fluid in use.

The math behind it,

[([CS cooldown/JotP/Wrath of Air/(2[1.5s + Latency in seconds])] - 1)*Haste Conversion @80]

And just because I'm feeling lazy, the reasoning is that it just works that way.

[Blznsmri]

I didn't say 3.9 was the cap, just like every example I see uses 3.9s for their numbers or whatever. that's why I asked.

[Emaluri]

Judgements of the Pure is a common choice for sub-speccing into Holy as Ret PvP, which provides 9% haste after a Judgement cast - which, if I recall correctly, will bring your 3.9 CS down to a 3.0 CS, which explains the "JotP" part of Badpaladin's algorithm.

[Badpaladin]

I didn't say 3.9 was the cap, just like every example I see uses 3.9s for their numbers or whatever. that's why I asked.

You're probably seeing 4.5/1.09/1.05 = 3.9318479685454, which is basically the cooldown CS is going to be "at" by default in raids before you factor in personal latency. It's just part of the equation, though. You use that number and divide it by the forumula for 3.0s CS and latency so you find the exact haste you need to get your CS down to 3.0 seconds. There's still a lot of debate over this though, as the spell queue still doesn't affect latency and some people are reporting the GCD of CS being shortened, GCD of physical abilities interacting with CS shortening, etc...

[Blznsmri]

You're probably seeing 4.5/1.09/1.05 = 3.9318479685454, which is basically the cooldown CS is going to be "at" by default in raids before you factor in personal latency. It's just part of the equation, though. You use that number and divide it by the forumula for 3.0s CS and latency so you find the exact haste you need to get your CS down to 3.0 seconds. There's still a lot of debate over this though, as the spell queue still doesn't affect latency and some people are reporting the GCD of CS being shortened, GCD of physical abilities interacting with CS shortening, etc...

I'm good at math and all, but that personally feels like too much work haha. I'll just let the "pro's" or "min/maxers" do their math thing and i'll just contently play in my own little ignorance, besides, i mostly tank anyhows.

Thank's for answering the question.

[Ronark]

I'm good at math and all, but that personally feels like too much work haha. I'll just let the "pro's" or "min/maxers" do their math thing and i'll just contently play in my own little ignorance, besides, i mostly tank anyhows.

Thank's for answering the question.

You could use : http://n3t.net/wow/ret_haste.cgi

[Gavenrod]

Uhh, 3.0 is the "cap", not 3.9.

There is no "cap" for how low you can lower your Crusader Strike cooldown. In my current gear I've manage to hit 2.75 (+JotP+%5 raid buffed haste) after slamming a potion, and activating hyper speed accelerators.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...nd&cn=Gavenrod

[Nillo]

There is no "cap" for how low you can lower your Crusader Strike cooldown.

It's a softcap obviously... (PS: Badpaladin already described why 3.0 sec is the cap so don't make me repeat it)

[Elamahpla]

@Ronark, would it be possible to (for now, until Dec. 7) to make a sticky with some of these questions. i.e. the meaningless ones.

Something with Chaos Bane and CS CD to name a couple.

[Kisko]

@Ronark, would it be possible to (for now, until Dec. 7) to make a sticky with some of these questions. i.e. the meaningless ones.

Something with Chaos Bane and CS CD to name a couple.

I don't think that Chaos Bane question is a meaningless one.

According to my test data proc rate was nerfed in 4.0.

3.3 Bane: 1 proc per 4.77 seconds (full raid buffs)
4.0 Bane: 1 proc per 6.09 seconds (full raid buffs)

The whole idea of canceling Bane was based on the assumption that procs are frequent enough and we will get more dps from them than 270 Str buff.
Now procs are 20% less frequent. Is this assumption still holds true? Nobody knows.

Top10 @ Festergut25H:
Seven rets cancel Bane
Three don't cancel it

One of these three is Blessin <Juggernaut>, world #27 guild. He is a core raider and hardly a bad player I would say.

[Badpaladin]

Chaos Bane is a matter of worth of a high uptime str bonus + low uptime of str from shards versus 20% less frequent proc + higher uptime of shard buff. Personally I still think the latter wins out by a slight amount, but that slight amount isn't enough to account for DP and HOL rng so just looking at logs won't give you a sufficient answer.

[Elamahpla]

@Kisko, weren't you the same on arguing with Req. about something stupid?

Also, PLEASE, don't name drop, who cares what guild they're in, look at Savedyou, he's hardly ever placed on top parses and he's in a better guild that Juggernaut. Also, as far as the /cancelaura goes, you can't judge, from those parses alone. What gear do they have compared to others etc. RDPS and all that good stuff, but, I'm sure you knew that already buddy.

@BP What did he (Req) get banned for this time.

[Badpaladin]

Err, I think it was the troll image infraction, 14 days. It's a clear-cut rule in the FAQ though, so there isn't much quarrel over legitimacy.

[Kisko]

Chaos Bane is a matter of worth of a high uptime str bonus + low uptime of str from shards versus 20% less frequent proc + higher uptime of shard buff. Personally I still think the latter wins out by a slight amount, but that slight amount isn't enough to account for DP and HOL rng so just looking at logs won't give you a sufficient answer.

I'm not trying to give any answer. I just pointed out that things changed since 3.3 and canceling Bane is not a no-brainer as it used to be.

Also, PLEASE, don't name drop, who cares what guild they're in, look at Savedyou, he's hardly ever placed on top parses and he's in a better guild that Juggernaut. Also, as far as the /cancelaura goes, you can't judge, from those parses alone. What gear do they have compared to others etc. RDPS and all that good stuff, but, I'm sure you knew that already buddy.
@BP What did he (Req) get banned for this time.

Savedyou <Vigil> is a frequent Top10 guest, I remember him well. I don't know if he is actively raiding in 4.0 or not. So, uhm, what's your point again?

And again, I'm not trying to make a conclusion from these parses. Just pointing out that some top rets prefer to NOT cancel it.
What gear they have? BiS gear, of course.

[Elamahpla]

Once again, you're wrong on multiple accounts, but, I'm done with it, I can clearly tell you don't know what you're talking about in the least bit.

@Kangodo, have you tried to stabilize your net? Try finding a cause of the spikes and fix it there. Are you on a busy ISP during peak hours?

[Floross]

Generally try to keep your haste high . I think a range of 750~950 ( 1027 max ) is what you should be aiming for regardless of latency , just because it's that good ^_^. Censure hitting more often ftw. More AoW procs ftw. More HoL procs ftw ( though some dub it as a bad mastery , sometimes I guess depending on when it procs, and just because a crit from cs right now hits harder than a normal hit of TV, which will change imo ^_^ ).

I roll with ~820 haste from gear only. Just cause I can't ramp it up higher ( unless I was stupid enough to replace H TaJ with HWT ).

So Kango , imo go for option number 1) let it be wasted during spikes.

[Badpaladin]

Savedyou is terrible, lol. He got a ton of top ten parses back when nobody had smourne but when moat paladins in top guilds got them he was nowhere to be seen. Also, he was terrible on dynamic fights...I used to top him on sindragosa, pp, bpc and ldw every week when I was raiding and I don't have a skillmourne. You'll just have to trust me on that though, my last real raiding parse has looooooong expired.

And I know you weren't trying to make a statement about which is better, I'm just saying that the difference probably isn't too high and using parses won't give you accurate enough data. You'd need to do some algebra to get a definite answer...and I for one don't feel like it, lol. Maybe if you could convert it to a Delta function and tell me to copy it over to my classwork.....*shiver*

Ahem. Yeah. Anybody up to the task?

[Elamahpla]

Savedyou is terrible, lol. He got a ton of top ten parses back when nobody had smourne but when moat paladins in top guilds got them he was nowhere to be seen. Also, he was terrible on dynamic fights...I used to top him on sindragosa, pp, bpc and ldw every week when I was raiding and I don't have a skillmourne. You'll just have to trust me on that though, my last real raiding parse has looooooong expired.

And I know you weren't trying to make a statement about which is better, I'm just saying that the difference probably isn't too high and using parses won't give you accurate enough data. You'd need to do some algebra to get a definite answer...and I for one don't feel like it, lol. Maybe if you could convert it to a Delta function and tell me to copy it over to my classwork.....*shiver*

Ahem. Yeah. Anybody up to the task?

I was going to say that lol.

People assume that every ret in a top 50 guild is good. It's far from it, they had SM before a large portion of the ret community and their DPS exploded because of it.

And, I'm not doing that math for that shit.