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  1. #181
    Amazing post, we need more helpful posts like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aakarshan View Post
    This is best comparable to fighting fire with a blowtorch to your own face.

  2. #182

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by iceberg265 View Post
    I have one argument. You advocate the use of roots/snares if a DPS pulls aggro. But if a mob gets rooted next to a healer, that mob will turn and kill the healer no matter who has aggro on it. It will also do this to another DPS. So if you are going to root/snare, do so away from your teammates.
    Other dps and healers should be smart enough to get away from a mob that is close by without any aggro from the tank, and would be even wiser to position themselves in a way that it has to run near the tank to get to him or her. The tank should then be able to taunt that mob and regain control of it.

  4. #184
    Good job! Sadly enough the ones needing to read this the most will probably never do.
    My RP character:

  5. #185

    the wrath label is pretty harsh...

    i don't think it's so much "wrath" players as it is overall bad habits that all players have fallen into the last 6 months of facerolling heroics... you see it when leveling alts when dps and even sometimes healers are facepulling because the tank is trying to pull moderate size groups that he can control... heirlooms and overgeared toons running heroics have led to lazy, bad habits...

    the first 6 months of the expansion are going to be rough for some people, but then again after 6 months, the facerolling overgeared runs will start again...

    blizz tried to warn people with RS and the three newer ICC heroics... consider them a warmup for how you are going to have to start out in cata again...

  6. #186
    I remember how excited I was to have the ability to sap targets other than humanoids for WOTLK, knowing that it would make me a better prospect for 5 mans.

    WOTLK came and I think I used sap...once in a 5 man? and that sap was broken immediately.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Daylosprime View Post

    The challenge and the FUN of doing group content is having to work for your reward. Hitting LFG queues and facerolling a heroic instance in less then 20 minutes isn't my idea of quality entertainment. Here's hoping Blizz doesn't cave in to the whiners and actually make people earn their shiney, new epics.

    I honestly doubt blizzard is going to cave. They understand that wrath on dungeons and what not was a complete aoe failfest. People will just have to learn what CC is again and if they cant, well, adios, we wont be missin ya.

    People also need to understand that dungeons were so easy because of the tier most were in. Now if all these wannabe elitists went back and did all the wrath dungeons in full heroic starter blues/greens, they will surely then find out that they're not that easy (not hard, but no easy either).

    Dungeons in Cata whilst will be easier for guilded groups, will undoubtedly eventually become face face roll for LFD groups as well. People will know where to go what mobs to CC, gear tiers will increase, so forth and so on.

    I am so giddy to do my first Cata dungeon. Will probably do them for the first few days as quest areas will be a mass of not able to do shitfest.

  8. #188
    This is I would have to say one of the MOST useful posts ever! I hope people read this and take it all in. Ahh back to the good ole days

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeklor View Post
    Good job! Sadly enough the ones needing to read this the most will probably never do.
    Haha sadly i think that's even true.
    But really good job on explaining the stuff.
    Can't wait to have to THINK again while actually doing an instance now.

  10. #190
    Herald of the Titans theredviola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    An excellent post good sir. However, I'd imagine that the majority of the mmo-champion community knows these things, but a nice in depth refresher is never a bad idea.
    "Do not only practice your art, but force yourself into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine." -- Ludwig Van Beethoven

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by theredviola View Post
    An excellent post good sir. However, I'd imagine that the majority of the mmo-champion community knows these things, but a nice in depth refresher is never a bad idea.
    True. I really doubt many nubs playing rarely come onto mmo-champion. Still a great refresher post though and I rather enjoyed reading it.

  12. #192
    Mechagnome Perfectdark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    portland, OR
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucialus View Post
    It's a good post, but the arrogance and the whole 'wrath' players thing makes me really want to disregard it. Seriously, was it needed?
    He meant people like you in all likeliness. Don't criticize, if you didn't like it, don't post.

  13. #193
    Wow, this is like, the how to guide to be a good player. Why not just title it that? Because it pretty much applies to all content ever released. Also, WoTLK super inflated gear, yes, but unless you actually downed the hardest content available at the proper time, you can't say anything about it being watered down, easy and boring. Did you kill Firefighter when it was relevant? Yogg-0? Algalon? Freya 3 tree? Anub HM? LK pre 4.0? No? Can't talk. Sorry.

  14. #194
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Goldshire Inn
    A great post idd, and I know many that would do good by reading it, ol' as new.

    Though I dont really like the rift that have started to be btw ol'vanilla/BC gamers and Wrath gamers. Like the ol' once is ganking down on Wrathers of being young and dum that have no idea how to play, while Wrathers compare ol's like outdated fossiles that just complain. Maybe this rift been there all the time, but just me in my own naive world did not want to see it. :'<

  15. #195
    Absolutely brilliant post. I remember in BC when this was all true as well, and I'm excited (if not a little afraid) of Cata bringing this all back. Thank's for the insight for all of those who haven't experienced content like this.

    Good luck, everyone, and keep up the good work.

  16. #196
    Protip. BC wasn't any harder than Wrath. The heroics yeah, the raid content? No.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    I agree with everything except this. When the content gets tough it is very, very important that there is one person that knows all the pulls, sets the kill order, decides what to CC and makes sure nothing is pulled before the group is ready. This could in theory be anyone, but in practice it will always be the tank.

    So: You ARE the master of the group. It is your responsibility to know every pull and every boss. Lay out the kill orders, CC and tactics. Tell the group to stop when the healer needs to drink and tell the group to go when everyone is ready. In WotLK groups didn't need leaders since everyone could just charge in and go all out AoE. All the stupid things that people pulled in WotLK dungeons that could be easily fixed by the tank will now wipe your group in Cata, you cannot let this happen.
    Tank enters a heroic for the first time, but the healer has been here 5 times before. Who calls the shots?

    On a side note to all of you guys who say "oh I dont like this 'wotlk player' remark...people have been like this from the start" compare any WotLK raid instance to a BC instance. If I'm not mistaken 25 TK you needed to sheep like 4 of the mobs at the very beginning + additioinal CC along the way. ICC on the otherhand...ya no. rare cases but not to this extent. TotC..lul. Naxx...ya not really. Oh and RS..who even ran that place? Not to mention running Botanica pre-WotLK patch still required CC and carful pulls, even if you were decked in epics. Shit if you had epics in WotLK it meant that you could just aoe tank EVERYTHING and spam AoE it down, explaining the recent AoE tanking changes that have tanks (especially pallys) QQing over it, not to mention atm if you go into an AoE group and start to spam your AoE's like cleave and WILL pull aggro and die (or atleast before the 17% nerf they did). Either way...Wrath brought a generation of less skilled players into WoW, and its not their fault, its the fault of bad trash design. Enough said
    Make a level 1 human on the US server Moonguard and run over to the Goldshire Inn. Once there prepare to be blown away by a series of WTFBBQ's and complete and total spacial mindfuck. Do. It. Now.
    Quote Originally Posted by danielu100 View Post
    gharld fu cked name,all my friends are playing on this patch and its going fine,u fu cking ugly kid go comment ur mother face not here, morron shit.
    He's right. I should go comment my mother face.

  18. #198
    I have started playing during the wrath content(Ending of 3.1 was the start), however, I have always played along the lines as the OP stated(Leveled 5 characters to 70, 3 to 80), yet, what I have seen was the problem was not with the players started in WotLK, but with people calling themselves vanilla or bc veteran, as they'd go jump to packs or not accept players that has newly finished their heroics farm to Naxx runs and where they require them to have Ulduar quality gear as minimum. Right now the very same thing happens for ToC 10/25 runs even in the current day, requiring icc level gear as minimum which is utter foolishness as you are accepting a player who needs items from that run to come there wearing better gear(Before 4.0.1 though).

    Why have I written this? It is due to the very fact that seeing people blaming either casuals or wrath beginners for their faults. I have friends who have been playing since Vanilla who dps as much as tanks and one who began playing in wrath, having the realm first kill for LoD where he sorta leads the guild. I am hoping cataclysm will be the kind of blank slate that all you Veteran-claims-to be are nevertheless are worse players than those "noobs" they call.

    Thanking the OP for writing an informative post, gl to all in cata who would be there to play, not to whine and blame their mistakes on others

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    You should have put a TL;DR at the beginning that just said "Don't be bad" and it could save a lot of people a lot of time.
    It's a good post for people who have never played wow before but I would hope that is all kindergarten information for everyone else.
    I thought exactly the same. I also think the title is very misleading, because it almost sounds like you suggest WotLK didn't require what you said?

  20. #200

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